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Daring Acts of Blasphemy

Lourd de Veyra | Published: Oct 6, 2010 - 9:27am

"EXCOMMUNICATION" is such a heavy, frightening word—”one with such connotations of medieval severity, gigantic diptychs of angry clerics in dark cloaks with condemnatory fingers, pitchforks, torches, gothic spires, torture chambers, and, you know the rest. Of course, Bishop Nereo Odchimar says he was merely misquoted and a "truce" of sorts between Church and Malacanang has been called, but then again, you can't do anything once you drop the "E" word. That's like saying "bomb" inside an airplane. Then again, phrases like "civil disobedience" and "selling souls" are not exactly examples of temperate language.

But times have changed. Now we all know that the world is flat, the sun does not revolve around the earth, and that human beings will not be smitten by thunderbolt and frogs should they break the fourth commandment. More and more people are standing up to the Church, which they feel is still stuck in another darker century. Carlos Celdran—”who actually looks more frayle than anyone else inside Manila Cathedral ("Kayo na mana indio!")—”has become an overnight hero, mostly to young people, and especially young women (basing on the pictures) on whom we'd certainly like to practice our reproductive health, uhm, skills. The furious priests claimed it a desecration of holy ground—”Manila Cathedral, the place of Cory Aquino's wake as well as the unlucky site where Martin and Pops as well as Sharon and Gabby promised each other undying love.

More than impassioned advocacy or outrage (to some), I regard Celdran's actuations as performance. His "Damaso" act had all the elements of performance—”props, costume, timing, message, punchline, and more importantly, cojones--and the man knows how to put up a show. He also had wit. "Damaso" was short and snappy but spot-on; I would've put it more bluntly, something like "Die, motherfuckers" or "Feed my ten unplanned kids, bitch," then maybe run away screaming for heavenly forgiveness.

Those who moan, "But he desecrated the Holy Mass. He could've expressed his sentiments outside the cathedral" completely miss the point. One dude carrying a placard in front of a coven of bishops will not instantly dismantle the very foundation of the Roman Catholic faith nor result into a generation of heathens who dump babies in the airline trash bin. But timing and placement is everything. Sure, he risks the fury of hellfire and eternal damnation by doing it in front of the altar, but, again, timing is everything. Had he chosen to stage a protest outside, it would merely gotten lame-o coverage and he would've been dismissed as some cute and novel crackpot.

Maybe desperate times do call for desperate measures—”it's a debate that has no end, but you understand how urgent things are every time you need to hit the emergency brake every time a wayward toddler—”grimy and pantless—”dashes across the street, the first of many. In an image-driven mass media, sometimes you have to toe the line and break certain taboos. The Mass is holy? Sure, but opponents of Vatican II will tell you that it hasn't been holy and solemn since 1963, with the disappearance of Latin, and with its liturgical songs acquiring a jangly pop sheen, and with churchgoers in spaghetti straps and tight jeans. But that's another quarrel for another day. For now, mahalo, Caloy.

I come from a school that considers "Liberation Theology" an ugly phrase and where a teacher once admonished a student for asking—”in all earnestness-- the moral consequences of oral sex ("Ano kayo, baboy?"). But on such matters there now seems to be a tectonic shift in attitude—”even among the faithful. And I hope that said teacher would die without experiencing the one thousand and pleasures of well-performed cunnilingus.

Image from worshippingchristian.org.

 

The history of art and popular culture is peppered with stuff that flashed the Church a big dirty finger and The Da Vinci Fucking Code doesn't really count. John Lennon said The Beatles were "bigger than Jesus" and a lot of people went ballistic. Slayer's "Jesus Saves" and "Altar of Sacrifice" are the two of the most Satanic compositions before Justin Bieber's "Baby." Sinead O'Connor once ripped apart a picture of Pope John Paul II on national TV. Depeche Mode recorded a song with a chorus that went, "I don't want to start all these blasphemous rumors/ But I think that God's got a sick sense of humor/ And when I die/ I expect to find him laughing " The genius British comedy troupe Monty Python made the film, The Meaning of Life, which contained a song with the lyrics "Every sperm is sacred/ Every sperm is great/ If a sperm is wasted/ God gets quite irate."

Child and Rat by Emer Roberts. Image from stonegallery.ie.

 

In the '80s an Italian-American woman called herself Madonna and started singing songs moist with sexual innuendos—”she hitherto remains alive and rich although her punishment might have come in the form of looking like an aging transvestite after too much yoga. Whether or not the songs of Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult, AC/DC, and The Eagles were direct attacks against the Christian faith is no longer relevant—” anything that involves backmasking, Faustian deals with the devil, oblique references to dark castles, wizards, fairies, dark desert highways and warm smells of collitas are instantly disqualified. So are the lyrics of every conceivable black metal band from Venom to Gorgoth.

Illustration by Gil Vicente. Image from artesquema.com

Here, too, is an excerpt from a Marquis de Sade novel: "To Testard's horror he also began to engage in the most provocative and blasphemous acts, including masturbating into a chalice, referring to the Lord as 'motherfucker' and inserting two communion hosts into the terrified young woman before entering her himself, all the while screaming, 'If thou art God, avenge thyself!'" A few months back, a Brazilian painter named Gil Vicente illustrated his fantasies, one of which was pointing a gun at Pope Benedict a.k.a God's Rottweiler. And I remember back in the '90s, Pinoy macabre artist Jojo Legaspi staged an exhibited at Penguin Café in Malate where I was surprised to piss into a urinal full of rosaries.

Image from artcrimes.net

Any attack on the Church made on the basis of pure hysteria cannot seem to possess lasting gravity, as they remain purely on the level of hyperbolic caricature, like an album titled "God Hates Us All" or ironic sloganeering as in this delightful painting by my favourite, Manuel Ocampo or this photograph portraying a crucifix submerged in the artist's own urine. Shock often diminishes any merit of discourse. Then again, if you're an organization that's been around for only, say, the past five thousand years and has survived countless heretic movements, schisms, antagonistic philosophers, drunken poets and mad composers, why should one painting or one piece of performance art or one stupid pop song matter? Marquis de Sade and John Lennon are dead, Sinead O'Connor is now a footnote in pop music, but, har har, the Church is still here.

But if on the basis of a political issue—”now we're talking. Especially if you happen to be smart, educated, and living in the Philippines circa 1890s, at time when we were still worrying about purgatory and venal sins while the Western world was talking about laboratory barometers and democracy.

Our Propagandistas were masters of satire. The granddaddy of them all, Rizal, drew up the ultimate archetype of the loathsome Franciscan, including the ugly attribute of not appreciating a tinola full of bony chicken parts.What made their shtick even more akin to an extreme sport was that the Spanish friars did not exactly have a sense of humor.

But the Manila Cathedral episode definitely says something about us. Maybe you can call it "maturity" or an awakening of sorts. My father likes calling it "matigas na ang buto" (i.e. "Marunong ka nang sumagot, ha? Bakit, matigas na ang buto mo? Dapa!") The more we are informed and educated, the more we tend to stand up to what we believe is "right." With knowledge comes a terrifying sense of confidence. Condoms, aside from preventing unwanted babies who will one day make scandal videos of their own, also make excellent if somewhat unctuous party balloons. Birth-control pills make women fat and temperamental. We're surrounded by an excess of information.

And since the persona of Rizal has been invoked, let's see what Nick Joaquin, in his book A Question of Heroes, has to say about the era of the Propagandists: "The common belief is that Philippine insurgency was a reaction to misery. The economic facts indicate the reverse. An insurgent intellectual movement appeared precisely during an era of peace, progress and prosperity Indeed if the Insurgency was a reaction to misery, then the Revolution should have exploded in, say, Samar or Leyte, the most miserable areas in the country then as now. But no, the Revolution exploded precisely in the country's most affluent region: the Tagalog and Pampango provinces. It's easy to see why. People become less and less willing to swallow slights as they become more and more wealthy and cultured. Rizal born in a mansion and educated in Europe is not going to kowtow to some ignorant small-town curate." This is not to say that the bishops are ignorant. It's just that in the mansion of information where we now purport to dwell, people are no longer afraid of spending the rest of their lives in hell (although we must always remember that information isn't always knowledge). Although there's a significant chance our lawmakers might fear not the fires of hell but something closer to their black, black hearts: the loss of votes should the Church campaign against them in the next elections.

In 2007, Vanity Fair contributing editor Christopher Hitchens published a book called God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, offending everyone from the Catholic Church to the Moslem hierarchy. Earlier this year, Hitchens was diagnosed with cancer. Of the endless attributes of God, we must not forget sense of humor. And when I die, I, too, expect to find Him laughing. Note: I capitalized the 'H.' Just making sure.

This is a Crazy Planets is available in newsstands, bookstores and supermarkets nationwide for only P195. For more information, click here.

Artwork by Warren Espejo.



 
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  • secularhumanist Jan 26 2011 @ 05:35am Report Abuse
    @robin rnrnunfortunately even secular islamic countries are also slowly bending secular rules so that it will be embraced by the sharia law. I have a friend who is a muslim and he talked about how premarital sex offenders are being shot at and thrown rocks by the populace even with the police looking in the background. I guess the police are muslim too. rnrnThe opinion above is not anti-muslim I am merely stating the fact that in this millenia it will be a war between secularism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism) and governments slowly putting religion as the major foundation in their so called "democratic" governments.
  • robin Nov 23 2010 @ 07:10pm Report Abuse
    Ah, ang ibig mong sabihin sa mga THEOCRACY na bansa gaya ng sa Taliban sa Afghanistan.Pero sa isang secular Muslim nation gaya ng Indonesia at Malaysia,hindi siguro...
  • batman Nov 23 2010 @ 07:03pm Report Abuse
    madali lang naman ma break ang rules dito kasi alam nating mapagpatawad ang simbahan pero kung gawin niyo kaya yun sa mga muslim countries...?
  • robin Nov 22 2010 @ 11:04pm Report Abuse
    Ano ibig mong sabihin Batman? elaborate...
  • batman Nov 22 2010 @ 02:57pm Report Abuse
    O nga gawin niyo nga yan sa ibang bansa kung matapang ka at kaya mong panindigan ang mga sinasabi mo.
  • ivan karamazov Nov 15 2010 @ 08:53pm Report Abuse
    @kolyamolosovrnrnPerhaps Machiavellian, but it is st*p*d to label "Man". "Man" must be an idea to achieve, not an essence to receive. When we act like gods we become more like beasts (in corporate attire).
  • kolyamolosov Nov 15 2010 @ 08:14pm Report Abuse
    @ivan,rnrnDon't kid yourself comrade.You know that Comrade Marx had a fatal flaw in his thesis. Man is essentially selfish....
  • ivan karamazov Nov 15 2010 @ 08:03pm Report Abuse
    @kolyamolosovrnrnNobody consciously wants that. But I think almost everybody is unconsciously being led to love their own enslavement. This global capitalist world might be the last stage before we embrace its anti-thesis. We all know what it is.
  • kolyamolosov Nov 15 2010 @ 12:20am Report Abuse
    @ivan,rnrnIs Comrade Putin the premiere of Russia? you want to spend your whole life in the Gulag?
  • ivan Nov 14 2010 @ 04:56pm Report Abuse
    @kolyamolosovrnrnWait. But do I have to obey the Politburo?
  • ivan karamazov Nov 14 2010 @ 04:53pm Report Abuse
    @kolyamolosovrnrnI get it. I see.
  • kolyamolosov Nov 14 2010 @ 04:48pm Report Abuse
    Are you trying to play cute with me comrade?the quack doctor who always cut you whenever you make a comment regarding the RH Bill.
  • ivan karamazov Nov 14 2010 @ 04:42pm Report Abuse
    @kolyamolosovrnrnWho's the quack doctor?
  • kolyamolosov Nov 14 2010 @ 12:23pm Report Abuse
    @comrade ivan,rnrnContinue on your existentialism treatise, but refrain from tangling with that idiot quack doctor. Orders straight from the politburo in Moscow. For strict compliance.
  • ivan karamazov Nov 14 2010 @ 10:03am Report Abuse
    @secularhumanistrnrnI'm curious, what's the point of secular humanism?
  • secularhumanist Nov 09 2010 @ 10:29pm Report Abuse
    @raizzarnrnYou must be a good obeying Christian I guess. But please this is not the Middle Ages everyone has the right to speak his opinion, including Lourd. I don't know the person PERSONALLY (except he is in a band) and I don't think you have the right nor everyone else's including me to keep their pieholes shut and keep their opinions for themselves. You don't believe in right of free speech do you?rnrnSecond I don't find any of his works sacrilege or blasphemous since my mindset is not setup for the 13th Century. Every man has the right to his own free opinion and to voice it out regardless of the consequences. I espouse free thinking, critical thinking and I am for complete secularization of this country and leave religion as a private personal matter. So I would recommend you go back to your own time and leave free speech to the 21st century.
  • raizza Nov 09 2010 @ 07:58pm Report Abuse
    you are a very good writer, very interesting.. im sure many souls will be convinced..your article seems so persuading that i conclude you want everyone to believe in you. Its your own opinion, we have ours, so please, keep it in your own.rn*ps- i noticed just to defend celdran's act, you have cited a lot of very immoral / sacrilegious works. good try, to make celdran's act very reasonable. good writing tactics huh? :D
  • mondy Nov 09 2010 @ 07:42pm Report Abuse
    bilib ako sa mga opinions mo de veyra, but not this time. if you tolerate celdran's act, maraming gagaya diyan.kahit anong sabhin nyo, pambabastos pa rin yan. try nyo gawin yan sa mosque sa saudi, for sure pugot na ulo nyo.
  • jagaruga Oct 28 2010 @ 02:48pm Report Abuse
    @ivanrnrnAh, ok. Got it. There's the word "reproductive" and "health". One would think the bill really has something to do with those words. My bad.
  • ivan karamazov Oct 27 2010 @ 10:11pm Report Abuse
    @tonymontana rnrnNothing, funny Zombie.
  • tonymontana Oct 27 2010 @ 09:08pm Report Abuse
    @ivan,rnrnSo what's your beef against population control? you want to have a population of 100 million Zombies?
  • ivan karamazov Oct 27 2010 @ 08:59pm Report Abuse
    @jagarugarnrnForget the nonsense. Reproductive health bill is not about health. It's about population control. Follow the Georgia guide stones.
  • jagaruga Oct 27 2010 @ 08:56am Report Abuse
    Since it's Reproductive Health Bill, wouldn't it be fair if it includes provisions to couples who want to have a baby but can't?
  • nic0_626 Oct 26 2010 @ 11:59am Report Abuse
    http://www.spot.ph/blog/46685/daring-acts-of-blasphemyrn[Res Lee]rn2:58pmrnso whats this aboutrn[You]rn2:59pmrnpinoy blogrn[Res Lee]rn2:59pmrnhahaharnano meron?rn[You]rn3:00pmrnbasahin mo maikli lang yanrn[Res Lee]rn3:01pmrnphilippine philosophy towards religion does not really interest mern[You]rn3:01pmrnits funnyrnkillmme if notrn[Res Lee]rn3:03pmrnlove mernlolsrnduderncheck mo naman tornhe tries tornpoint out a well known factrn[You]rn3:03pmrnbasa mo narn[Res Lee]rn3:04pmrnand doesn't even state anything new about the said "never-ending debate"rnkind of absurdrn[You]rn3:04pmrnwell,philippines has always beenrn[Res Lee]rn3:04pmrnwell the other thing i'd like to point out isrn[You]rn3:05pmrn? (send as a message)rnYour chat message wasn't sent because Res is offline.rn3:06pmRes is online.rn[Res Lee]rn3:06pmrnhow he tries to make it as if he's a "philosopher" in stating these so called factsrnpero.. siya mismo closed minded dun sa idearnna ganun na ang panahonrnhe also failed to state that JOHN LENNON SAID SORRYrn[You]rn3:07pmrnoh.failed to side with or against the bill toorn[Res Lee]rn3:08pmrnand not to mention the moron also says that SLAYER'S SONG JESUS SAVES AND ALTAR OF SACRIFICE were SatanicrnLOLrnwhat kind of prejudiced moron is this guy?rnbrb nga lang parernthat didn't make me laughrnit made me pissedrnlol
  • hefner Oct 21 2010 @ 10:59am Report Abuse
    @hefnerrnrnYada!
  • hefner Oct 21 2010 @ 10:50am Report Abuse
    @ivan,rnrnSo?
  • ivan karamazov Oct 21 2010 @ 10:34am Report Abuse
    @hefnerrnrnHe's a christian. And your an agnostic relativist.
  • hefner Oct 20 2010 @ 07:23pm Report Abuse
    @jagaruga,rnrnand why would you be thumping your bible in the middle of an orgy? are you some kind of nut or something? how thumping it in a middle of an abu-sayaff, tete-at -tete?
  • jagaruga Oct 20 2010 @ 06:38pm Report Abuse
    Yes, you can say that. I'm a theist.
  • ivan karamazov Oct 20 2010 @ 06:33pm Report Abuse
    @jagarugarnrnSo you believe in your Christian God huh?
  • jagaruga Oct 20 2010 @ 06:31pm Report Abuse
    By the way, I would like to spread the word that premarital sex is immoral. Would it be ok if I express my point by raising a Bible and preach the word of God in an orgy particularly in the middle of a bukkake when the timing is right?
  • ivan karamazov Oct 20 2010 @ 04:05pm Report Abuse
    @jagarugarnrnyeah.
  • jagaruga Oct 20 2010 @ 01:00pm Report Abuse
    By the way, I read previous posts and yes, religion sparks difference of belief. Aside from religion, political views too can have the same effect. Also, in Science, it is common to see scientists contradict each other by coming up with different theories to describe an event. There\'s quantum physics vs classical mechanics, wave particle duality. I don\'t know how this contribute to the discussion.
  • jagaruga Oct 20 2010 @ 12:43pm Report Abuse
    Very nice article. I don\'t think though, that the concern of the Catholic Church is that much of a hindrance in getting the bill approved. Catholic voters don\'t vote as one anyway. If they want to get this bill passed, the politicians could have done it a long time ago regardless of the stand of the Church.
  • 4i Oct 20 2010 @ 01:34am Report Abuse
  • rogerheartsethel Oct 19 2010 @ 10:15pm Report Abuse
    anong meron?
  • ambo Oct 18 2010 @ 01:22pm Report Abuse
    @einer,rnrni-maximize mo ng paggamit ng LIBRENG ESPASYO. Mamumulot ka ng nuggets of wisdom doon sa mas nakakaangat sa iyo sa angking talino.Huwag maiingit.
  • nyiwnyiw Oct 18 2010 @ 11:53am Report Abuse
    @Ivan: Hehe. Why not? I can enjoy the wonders of the world this way. Sabi mo, sa atheistic view, 'There's no sufficient reason for everything.' I actually agree with that. ×DrnrnSuicide is not a solution. To cease one's existence is to escape the Absurd which is more Absurd according to Kierkegaard. However, believing in a supernatural meaning to one's existence, e.g believing in God would be a leap of faith or 'philosophical suicide' as described by Albert Camus. So believing in a God is out of the question either.rnrnTherefore, to search for meaning in a seemingly meaningless world, to justify the purpose of one’s existence or value, is utterly meaningless in line with the fact that our ultimate destiny, whether guided by an omnipotent entity or not, is death. However, the human tendency to search for an answer never ceases to exist. Such is the nature of the Absurd.rnrnBut since we're here, why not enjoy life as it is? The world moves as if there's no God, the Universe continues to expand and do what it's been doing for the past billions of years as it is without any God. The Universe wasn't designed for humans as the concept of 'Intelligent Design' claims. And we're here, so why believe in the existence of an omnipotent being who is the same God that causes suffering?rnrnBeing an atheist doesn't equate to absence of morality either. Even animals and the chimpanzees have been proven to have morality. :Drnrn---rnrnAs an atheist, I believe that the religious human population should abolish superstitious belief that pulls down the rest of humanity down and stops the advancement of civilization. Like how muslims abuse women, how violently they stand for their belief (beheading cartoonists and 9/11). And like how Christians hate the Gay population. I mean, not all Christians adhere to this part of the Bible too right? My point is that Religion only sparks differences in belief, which is bad, and leads to discrimination whilst most religion maintains that all humans have the same rights and that right is to live a good life. It's just inconsistent. Our life could've been better if we all base our actions and decisions in Reason and Logic rather in superstitious beliefs and a book which tells the story of a bored God.rnrn:)
  • einer Oct 18 2010 @ 07:07am Report Abuse
    etong si mang ambo, akala mo naman kung sinong magaleng, nakikisulat lang naman sa "libreng espasyo".
  • ambo Oct 17 2010 @ 10:17am Report Abuse
    @einer,rnrnAno naman ang diperensiya kung magaling mag-english? naiinggit ka ba? yung idol mong si Lourd, magaling mag English iyan! magaling din mag Tagalog iyan, at hindi mo naitanong magaling din mag Bicol at Bisaya iyan ,O ano? gayahin mo idol mo! Magbasa kayo ng libro, at hindi puro TV at internet, at games at telenobela at cell phone, lang na nakakabobo! magbasa kayo ng current events.rnGayahin niyo si Comrade Ivan, nag- babasa ng PILOSOPIYA! Kant,Sartre Nietzche, Dostoeyovski,Hegel Marx,Mao, heavey artilerry iyan,iyan ang gayahin ninyo para tumalino ang next generation ng mga Pilipino.Ewan ko lang kung mahilig sa Heavy Metal tong si Comrade?
  • ivan karamazov Oct 17 2010 @ 08:59am Report Abuse
    @clericrnrnThat's not even a real minimum. Now, you see how meaningless real atheism is. There is no sufficient reason for everything. Even suicide. Read Sartre.
  • einer Oct 17 2010 @ 06:04am Report Abuse
    ang gagaling mag ingles, talo pa yung mga kano, ang dugo naman ay pang indio...
  • cleric Oct 16 2010 @ 10:23pm Report Abuse
    @comradeIvan,rnrnYou gave one, a minimum-Preservation of the Species.Give me the other, before I blow this planet to kingdom Come....
  • ivan karamazov Oct 16 2010 @ 05:16pm Report Abuse
    @nyiwnyiwrnrnI hope you don't find atheism exhilarating or liberating.
  • ivan karamazov Oct 16 2010 @ 05:09pm Report Abuse
    @clericrnrnBest question yet. Everyone deserves to be asked that question.rnrnAs an atheist I have a simple answer for you. There is no good reason why we should not kill each other. There maybe some minimums like "to preserve the species", but that too is pointless. The true atheistic position is so coherently meaningless that is why I find it weird and st*p*d and illogical for atheists and weak agnostics to maintain some form degree of morality. I have no sufficient reason to take my own life either since my dead body is not more meaningful than my living body.rnrnAs for Celdran who said he is a catholic. Why do you admire the incoherence of this guy? No stand. A st*p*d agnostic pragmatic relativist.
  • nyiwnyiw Oct 15 2010 @ 10:15am Report Abuse
    @KaramazovrnrnHaha. I may have exaggerated a bit. Yup you're right! That's exactly why I hate them. Cafeterians tend to believe what they want to believe while disregarding other things that are considered true to their religion. They don't accept the fact that religion isn't perfect. I said that religion is not perfect but it doesn't mean that I chose to be cafeterian. I simply don't believe on the authority of religion and it's claim of truth with no evidence. Maybe I should organize my thoughts better next time. :Drnrnbtw, I'm actually in the process of becoming an atheist. I didn't say what's above as a Catholic but as a non-believer. That should clear things up.
  • xrmoymr;sbx Oct 14 2010 @ 09:10am Report Abuse
    blog nyo to? mas tl;dr pa mga comments kesa sa article ah.
  • ivan karamazov Oct 12 2010 @ 08:20pm Report Abuse
    @clericrnrnYou got the point. I have a simple answer for you. A dead body is not more meaningful than a living body. So even the point of suicide is equally meaningless. There is no sufficient reason to live and no sufficient reason to kill oneself either. Both choices are equally meaningless. rnrnBtw, im an exclusivist with regard to this topic, so if you believe in God I wouldnt argue about his existence, I would even urge you more to live up to "His" laws even if the society f*cks you up. It is better to face life and truth and be disgusted rather than live a lie that every way of life is the same. If your an atheist, there is no f*cking reason to be moral (reason as contrasted with want) and if you believe in God, there is no reason to give primacy to matter and everything secular either. rnrnSo in short, the secular humanist, the secular logical positivist are the most inconsistent people on earth.rnrnCeldran is st*p*d. If he's an atheist, he st*p*d coz even the preservation of species as the minimum summum bonum won't work. And if he's a Christian (and he is) he should be more ocnerend with the afterlife. Giving condoms will make you go to hell I believe. Taking away the material effect (babies, overpopulation) doesn't take away the spiritual effect (sin, promiscuity, pre-marital sex) but your God/Prophet said "What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?". So progress for progress first morality later is st*p*d. You cannot justify Celdran's belief wih regard to his "Catholic" or christian affilliation. Either he doesn't know what Christianity (teachings don't depend on priests) or he simply isn't catholic enough and therefore a relativistic son of a b*tch. (It's an either-or scenario since he stated that he's a catholic if he were a muslim or buddhist I would've approached the matter differently).
  • cleric Oct 12 2010 @ 07:52pm Report Abuse
    @comrade ivan,rnrnIf everything is meaningless and pointless in our universe, why continue living? give me two good reasons why we should not just kill each other off...
  • ivan karamazov Oct 12 2010 @ 02:48pm Report Abuse
    @nyiwnyiwrnrnThere are many contradictions with what you said. First, "Cafeterian believers are religiously inclined people that follow a doctrine by which they are comfortable with, yet disregards those with flaws. I hate Cafeterians. Religion isn't perfect. So is the law." You are correct defining Cafeteria Catholics but then why do you hate them if you also affirmed that religion is isn't perfect? If you're premise is "religion is not perfect" then it follows that the only remedy is to become a cafeteria catholic. Isn't it that the only honest reason to believe in anything is because it's true? On the otherhand, having in mind the basic requirement for any belief (that it is true), let's say Catholicism, if it were already true ,then why become a cafeteria Catholic? Your previous post applies here. If it's not true, then why become one? rnrnAnd btw, we are all imperfect but not all are hypocrites.
  • nyiwnyiw Oct 12 2010 @ 12:27pm Report Abuse
    Cafeterian believers are religiously inclined people that follow a doctrine by which they are comfortable with, yet disregards those with flaws. I hate Cafeterians. Religion isn't perfect. So is the law. The same people who tries to use the law, morality, and philosophy to justify their opposition to a certain belief or lack of belief can't use the same judgement to question their own religion. Why is that? The bottom line... We're all hypocrites.rnrnThe morality in the Philippines that is present today is one that allows government officials to be corrupt. I believe that most of them are actually Catholics. But I'll blame the Spaniards and the Friars.
  • ivan karamazov Oct 12 2010 @ 08:09am Report Abuse
    @secularrnrnWhat for? Being a secular humanist is meaningless and valueless. Is there a sufficient reason for being one? None. Progress for the sake of progress is like running for the sake of running without a goal or end.
  • secular Oct 11 2010 @ 08:28pm Report Abuse
    @ivan,rnrnreally comrade? which humanists are the brilliant ones? could you cite a few?
  • secular Oct 11 2010 @ 08:25pm Report Abuse
    @comrade ivan,rnrnReally? and which humanists are the brilliant ones? could you name a few?rnrnAnd BTW, bakit g*g* si Bono? sino ang mga ginago niya? please elaborate...rnrn
  • uloltayonglahat Oct 11 2010 @ 08:17pm Report Abuse
    @F.Bastiat,rnrnhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourd_de_VeyrarnrnIto ang profile ni Lourd De Veyra
  • howl Oct 11 2010 @ 07:09pm Report Abuse
    Knowledge like a grass blade, used well by the wise man whilst the fool cuts himself. rnrnGreat fun read :)
  • ivan karamazov Oct 11 2010 @ 03:27pm Report Abuse
    @secular rnrnSecular humanists are st*p*d.rn
  • secular Oct 11 2010 @ 12:45pm Report Abuse
    @Proud,rnrnOurs may not be suicide. Possibly, starving to death, malnutrition,TB or other diseases due to lack of nourishment , would be the leading cause of death here in less than 10 years....
  • kadaffy Oct 11 2010 @ 12:28pm Report Abuse
    Let Bastia express his thoughts. This is what the blog is actually all about. Let's get on with the debate without name shitting. :-)
  • Proud to be Pinoy Oct 11 2010 @ 08:15am Report Abuse
    @Secular,rnrnI just visited google and the statistics is alarming. Suicide is the 7th and 15th top notchers for male and female Americans respectively with respect to cause of death.rnrnAno ang dapat natin gawin upang hindi tayo matulad sa Amerika hingil dito?rnrnMeanwhile, sorry if I doubted you. The claim appeared unrealistic in the beginning.rnrnRegards,
  • tope Oct 11 2010 @ 07:50am Report Abuse
    @secularrnrnanong klaseng empirical evidence?? that suicide is the tenth leading cause of death in America??rnrnakalain mo nga naman... pumasok sa top 10 ang suicide sa leading cause of death...rnrnamerica yan ha... at japan.. supposedly, advance in knowledge at technology daw sila... :D :Drnrnwow!!rnrnasan na ang pinagmamalaki nyo na "science can solve everything"??rnrnbaliktarin mo ang mundo, eto ang katotohanan..rnrnthe more advanced and industrialized a society is, the more COMPLICATED our lives are... if life complicated, it becomes miserable without GOD...
  • Proud to be Pinoy Oct 11 2010 @ 07:18am Report Abuse
    Mayroon akong 2 katanungan hingil "Separation of State and Church" na matatagpuan sa ating Saligang Batas.rnrn1. Ano ang parusa sa mga lalabag dito?rn2. Mayroon na bang naparusahan dito?rnrnRegards,rn
  • Ana Guevara Oct 11 2010 @ 03:07am Report Abuse
    Records show that legislators from Manila, Parañaque, and Cebu are among the staunchest opponents of the RH Bill. It will, therefore, be good to look into the sentiments of their constituents who voted them into office. The SWS December 2008 Manila survey (with 88 percent Catholic respondents) indicated that 86 percent favored the passage of a family planning and reproductive health law. The SWS February 2009 Parañaque survey (with 91 percent Catholic respondents) revealed that 87 percent agreed that the RH bill should become a law. Lastly, the July 2009 SWS Cebu survey said that 87 percent of respondents (with 93 percent Catholics) favored the passage of such a law, as well. Thus, the questions begging to be asked are: who do the anti-RH legislators from these places represent? Whose interests are they protecting? Certainly, not their constituents’.
  • Secular Oct 11 2010 @ 12:10am Report Abuse
    @tope,rnrnThose are sweeping generalizations! could you cite some empirical evidence on your claim?
  • tope Oct 10 2010 @ 10:19pm Report Abuse
    knowledge is good for the development of man... but knowledge is not enough... man needs God.. man without God is a society full of misery..rnrnever wonder why Americans have higher suicide rates compared to the Philippines??rnrnIt is ironic because Americans have greater technology, more advanced knowledge.. YET MOST OF THEM ARE STRESSED OUT AND MISERABLE.. why?? because they are bunch of Secularist ATHEISTS...
  • tweekdiyes Oct 10 2010 @ 02:43pm Report Abuse
    @F.bastiatrnrn^_^ i am not even on LDV's side of argument and definitely not in yours.rnrni just find your way of arguing very..VERY(emphasis supplied)..interesting. Maybe i want to learn the way you argue. Talkin' like you are on a higher pedestal than anyone here.rnrnrn
  • igeramos Oct 10 2010 @ 09:35am Report Abuse
    @RockFanrnrn5 lang kasi yung hiningi, but I think I gave 7. I agree Bob Dylan, Mick Jagger and add David Bowie to the list.
  • F.Bastiat Oct 10 2010 @ 12:32am Report Abuse
    @tweekdiyes >> Also, I have posted comments in other articles here in spot. ph, can you please scan for civility, labeling, etc. We would not want to hurt any feelings. Right? rnrnAre you the one on sentry duty today?rn (Did that your pass civility/labeling standards?)
  • F.Bastiat Oct 09 2010 @ 09:51pm Report Abuse
    @tweekdiyes >> I'm glad to have made your day :)
  • tweekdiyes Oct 09 2010 @ 09:07pm Report Abuse
    Drones...haha...Labeling..galing^_^rnrnCIVILITY AT ITS FINEST!
  • Ivan Karamazov Oct 09 2010 @ 07:44pm Report Abuse
    Oo matalino si Bono. Magaling mang-g*g* ng tao. Kamukha siya ni Al Gore.
  • RockFan Oct 09 2010 @ 07:18pm Report Abuse
    @Igeramos,rnrnBakit wala si Jim Morrison (The Doors),Paul Simon, Mick Jagger ( London School of Economics drop-out),Robert Zimmerman,a.k.a.Bob Dylan,Ray Davies( The Kinks)?rnrnSi Bastiat? walang hilig sa rock iyan! gusto niyan hillbilly music, doon sa Appalachian mountains!
  • F.Bastiat Oct 09 2010 @ 07:13pm Report Abuse
    It seems that the drones are confused again. When I said '"Rock stars are intellectuals". Nice.' I really meant it, some were genuinely sensible. At one time Dylan, Geldof and Tupac (not a rock star, yes) made sense with their music and causes.rnrnBut just because I added 'It ought to be on a t-shirt or a bumper sticker. Right beside "I'm with st*p*d"' already sent the drone pack into fits of hysteria. I used to sell homemade "I'm with st*p*d" t-shirts at the Ohio State Fair for cryin' out loud!
  • igeramos Oct 09 2010 @ 06:03pm Report Abuse
    @SouvlakirnrnI also saw Brian May's Hard Talk interview on the BBC. Brilliant man.
  • igeramos Oct 09 2010 @ 06:02pm Report Abuse
    @Souvlakirnyes. i know. I greeted him on my FB page. rnrnNot to forget you have Tom Waits and Jack Kerouac as well.rnrn
  • Souvlaki Oct 09 2010 @ 05:52pm Report Abuse
    ^that was directed to F bastiat. rnrn@igeramosrnToday's Lennon's birthday. Cheers!
  • Souvlaki Oct 09 2010 @ 05:48pm Report Abuse
    Wow, such startling close-mindedness you have displayed there. I should've known better. Try telling that to Brian May, who has a phd in Physics and is currently an established astrophysicist, and to countless others who earn loads more than you or anybody here do - I won't have to mention every single one of them afor I now know reasoning with you is futile. Have a nice day.a
  • igeramos Oct 09 2010 @ 05:41pm Report Abuse
    Five intellectual rock musicians who changed the world in my view.rnrnJohn LennonrnBonornBrian FerryrnBeckrnBen Folds Five
  • tweekdiyes Oct 09 2010 @ 05:10pm Report Abuse
    @F.Bastiatrneto pa oh..sbe mo..rnrn-@Souvlaki >> "Rock stars are intellectuals". Nice. It ought to be on a t-shirt or a bumper sticker. Right beside "I'm with st*p*d".rnrnrnayos..CIVILITY=F.Bastiat.rnSayo pla dapat kumonsulta para marefine at maging CIVIL din kami.rnrnApir boss!
  • tweekdiyes Oct 09 2010 @ 05:06pm Report Abuse
    @F.BastiatrnrnHere are some of your quotes:rnrn-But like a dissatisfied wife once asked her husband "Is it in?", your rambling rnthoughts just, well, ramble.rnrn-So please, you have a good grasp of english (for a "rock star"?), your demonstrate subject and verb agreement and has some semblance of reasoning skills. But kid you still need a LOT of work on the thinking and rational argument area. Like I said its very much what a dissatisfied wife once asked her husband "Is it in?"rnrn-It is interesting and instructive to find how the supposedly intelligent, educated, smart, digitally-aware and upwardly mobile youth of today's Philippines are demonstrably incapable of the simplest dissent on a popular and socially relevant issue. Civility, it would seem, is a relic of a bygone era and rational thought is an illusion..rnrn-Oi Vey!!! Have you even read Philippine history? If you were in the Philippines during the 1890's the most pressing issue of the day was the Philippine revolutionary movement! Every smart and educated class was either in its favor (of course in secret) or overtly not infavor (obviously sucking up to clerical and civil authorities). Contemplation of purgatory and venal sins was simply not in your top ten list.rnrn...Yep.That's CIVILITY for you. Confronting the issues then attacking sarcastically on the person's language and reasoning skills, yeah that's CIVILITY in its pure form. Pffft...you have a lot cojones and audacity talking about CIVILITY my friend.rnrn
  • Ivan Karamazov Oct 09 2010 @ 04:35pm Report Abuse
    I think fanaticism is the only true religion, whether it is right or wrong.rnrnReligion is an either-or thing. It strives to be anyting except being relativistic.rnrnGoing left is not the same as going right. Yes you can say that you can have different routes going to Quesozn, but only if you want to go to Quezon city.rnrnTrue by defintion must and always be absolute. How can contradicting religions be the same?rnrnThat's the problem with this st*p*d christians who hate the church and yet support the RH bill. Christians should be more engaged with their "afterlife" rather the pointless materialistic progess. My favorite quote for the incoherent, inconsistent christian "What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?". rnrnI'm an atheist so the reasonable consistent position for me is Sartre's atheism, that without a God, everything is meaningless. I don't argue about God's existenc btw.rnrnYou are not a christian so I can talk with you all day and not get pissed. You can have a pantheistic, holistic etc view of life and I'll have no problem with it (consistency). But these christians? oohhh disgusting!!!!rn
  • Monocle Oct 09 2010 @ 04:26pm Report Abuse
    I doubt lourd has the time to comment on his own blog under a pseudonym. He has better things to do with his life than we do. Hahahaha. Meanwhile lourd. I know you are not going to read this but just in case, please compile you columns into a book. I would buy it and give them away to the cbcp for Christmas with this particular column bookmarked with a premiere condom.
  • J.Maki Oct 09 2010 @ 04:06pm Report Abuse
    @ivan krnrnrnIf you say the self is non-existent, then it wouldn't be possible for you, or any of us for that matter, to be in this forum. And if you say the universe were mindless, then why do you check your watch and follow time? And why did you grow a brain?rnrnIf God is impersonal, then why are you a person?  rnrnVaishnavaism is not impersonalism, you must've meant buddhism. I am not a buddhist. There are many religions, many paths; like there are different routes going to Quezon City. There could be short cuts and long cuts, but all routes lead to the destination. Therefore, there is no wrong religion- what is wrong is the tendency to be a fanatic. Even an atheist could be fanatic when it comes to proving a point.rnrnThe highest point of consciousness is not unconsciousness; is it is a deep bliss that only the wise understand.rnrnI am not saying that i am wise- but maybe we should strive to be wiser so that we will someday understand.rnrnAnd as for Carlos Celdran, i hope he's out of the clink coz i haven't had a tour.rn
  • J.Maki Oct 09 2010 @ 04:02pm Report Abuse
    If you say the self is non-existent, then it wouldn't be possible for you, or any of us for that matter, to be in this forum. And if you say the universe were mindless, then why do you check your watch and follow time? And why did you grow a brain?rnrnIf God is impersonal, then why are you a person?  rnrnVaishnavaism is not impersonalism, you must've meant buddhism. I am not a buddhist. There are many religions, many paths; like there are different routes going to Quezon City. There could be short cuts and long cuts, but all routes lead to the destination. Therefore, there is no wrong religion- what is wrong is the tendency to be a fanatic. Even an atheist could be fanatic when it comes to proving a point.rnrnThe highest point of consciousness is not unconsciousness; is it is a deep bliss that only the wise understand.rnrnI am not saying that i am wise- but maybe we should strive to be wise so that we will someday understand.rnrnAnd as for Carlos Celdran, i hope he's out of the clink coz i haven't had a tour.rnrn
  • F. Bastiat Oct 09 2010 @ 03:42pm Report Abuse
    @Souvlaki >> "Rock stars are intellectuals". Nice. It ought to be on a t-shirt or a bumper sticker. Right beside "I'm with st*p*d".
  • lia Oct 09 2010 @ 01:52pm Report Abuse
    the rights of the people who had come to worship? what about the rights of filipinos to control their own bodies? what about the rights of schoolchildren to be properly educated? rnrnare the self-righteous priests so fragile that we cannot interrupt a ceremony (that by the way repeats itself every hour on the hour anyway) to point out a failing in catholicism? rnrnpeople that talk about how celdran could have found another way to protest annoy me. perhaps if the church learned to respect the rights of the people, the rights of the secular community, then the people will respect the church. It does not only go one way.
  • RockFan Oct 09 2010 @ 01:05pm Report Abuse
    Oh yeah? Name me five intellectual Rock Stars.rnOkay I'll give you one, STING, name four others....rnrnBut I dig Lourd's Rock Listings!
  • Souvlaki Oct 09 2010 @ 12:26pm Report Abuse
    ..and my keyboard just malfunctioned. Not that you don't have a point, in fact I agree with most of what you said. I don't think Celdan should be glorified at all, since what he did IS against the law and the rights of those people who came to practice their faith. But what you're doing right now is no different than what he did, it's like raising "DAMASO" and a big fat middle finger to everyone by disagreeing with Lourd. This place IS his Church and the guys jumping on you are his followers (hint: I'm a fan, but not rabid enough to bypass sound reasoning); you're being a Celdan, but without breaking the law. Just thought I'd point that out, because nothing good can ever come out of egos clashing. If you look at the big picture, both sides are just the same, in my honest opinion. But one thing I really really disagree with is you calling Lourd a "rock star" which, based in context and how you used it, comes out like a derogatory term. Certain rock stars are intellectuals, and he is "that" and more.
  • Souvlaki Oct 09 2010 @ 12:06pm Report Abuse
    @F bastiatrnrn"So please, you have a good grasp of english (for a "rock star"?), your demonstrate subject and verb agreement and has some semblance of reasoning skills. But kid you still need a LOT of work on the thinking and rational argument area."rnrnLourd is a poet and a palanca awardee. Kid, you need a lot of work on how to properly insult people. Btw, his ramblings made more sense than your "carefully" constructed comments. arn
  • Souvlaki Oct 09 2010 @ 12:03pm Report Abuse
    @F Bastiatrn"So please, you have a good grasp of english (for a "rock star"?), your demonstrate subject and verb agreement and has some semblance of reasoning skills. But kid you still need a LOT of work on the thinking and rational argument area."rnrnHe's a POET - a f*cking Palanca awardee. Hey old man, this guy made more sense in his ramblings than your "carefully" constructed comments did.
  • Dr.Kildare Oct 09 2010 @ 11:02am Report Abuse
    No offense taken Doc!rnI guess,most of those who post here, are unaware of the dynamics of blog posting. The more hits, the more moolah, right Doc?
  • Dr.Kildare Oct 09 2010 @ 11:02am Report Abuse
    No offense taken Doc!rnI guess,most of those who post here, are unaware of the dynamics of blog posting. The more hits, the more moolah, right Doc?
  • Dr Wally Oct 09 2010 @ 10:26am Report Abuse
    @Dr. Kildarernrnno, i was not referring to your honest query. by "you" i was speaking collectively=)
  • Ivan Karamazov Oct 09 2010 @ 06:32am Report Abuse
    You confuse open-mindedness and relativism. Very poor. Relativism is far worse than close-mindedness.rnrnFilipnos deserve Celdran.rnFilipnos think propaganda is obvious(Catholic Church) and RH bill is the people's voice. rnrnBrave new world coming for the short minded filipino. They think they know their history, yeah yeah, Rizal etc. Our hisrtoy is written by st*p*d imperialistic and relativistic Americans.rnrnChristians supporting the RH bill are the most incoherent, illogical, pragmatic, hedonistic, epicureanistic breed in the entire world.rnrn
  • lis Oct 09 2010 @ 01:02am Report Abuse
    if the catholic church wants the people to respect their right to worship, then they should respect the people's right to control their own bodies. rnrnstay out of my temple and I will stay out of yours!
  • Proud to be Pinoy Oct 09 2010 @ 12:27am Report Abuse
    Dear Quintessence,rnrnKaragdagan sa ikalawang talaga (paragraph), sinagot ko lang ang tanong niya.
  • Proud to be Pinoy Oct 09 2010 @ 12:23am Report Abuse
    Dear Quintessence,rnrnKailan ko ba pinaalis ang sino man dito? Baka hindi mo alam, hindi ako ang may-ari ng forum na ito, kaya wala akong karapatan. Kung sakaling sa akin man ito, hindi ko magagawa iyon sapagkat hindi maganda.rnrnSinabi ng tao, "I could not understand this fixation of "start your own blog if you are so opinionated". I'm really lost on this one. Instruct the ignorant please :)".rnrnIkaw naman ang tatanungin ko, ano ang nais mong makamit sa pagpaparatang mo sa kapwa?rnrnI forgive you,
  • Strunk&White Oct 08 2010 @ 11:42pm Report Abuse
    Aldrich my man! Let me paraphrase it for you.rnGuys, brevity is the WORD.Please no ramblings and endless perorations. Right Aldrich?
  • aldrich Oct 08 2010 @ 11:26pm Report Abuse
    first of all. great article as always lourd. rnrnsecond, i am Catholic and i do still believe in Our Lord God, Jesus, Mary and all. I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, which as my highschool religion teacher said, is all of us catholics. but the clergy on the other hand...im sorry but i have my reservations and doubts. rnrnthird, regarding Carlos Celdran's performance protest, hands down to you and your big cojones! i am sure God forgives you if you ever disrupted His Holy Eucharist and i am willing to bet EXCUMMUNICATION that our good Lord God understands that its all for a good cause. As for the legal consequences of your actions...who the flying f**k cares right?! and for those who are angry and saying that you disturbed their religious right with your selfish actions..well...peace be with you too. I support you Mr. Celdran, and if you, PNOY, and everyone else who are beating some sense to our clergy gets EXCOMMUNICATED, it will be my honor to join you.rnrnfourth, for those who are againsts the RH bill, including the CBCP. i just hope you know that, for every child and parent living in poverty that is suffering because that one single choice to use that simple rubber balloon that could have made thier lives a bit easier was deprived away from them...that is on you. you are taking away their right for the government to help them with what they choose. the government should cater to everyone's right of choice, not just to Catholics. We should respect other people's choices.rnrnand lastly, for those people dissing Lourd de Vera. if you don't like what is written then don't read it! yes, you do have the right to free speech and you are entitled to what you believe but you also have the responsibility to be mindful of others. just say your piece and that's it! don't effin drag it into a never ending debate. this is a comment box, not a discussion forum. you should put all of what you have to say in one comment, not start a full on discussion.
  • quintissence Oct 08 2010 @ 11:06pm Report Abuse
    @proudtobepinoy - kelan pa nagkaron ng right na magpaalis ang isang commenter ng kapwa commenter? moderator ka ate? hehehe..rnrni doubt it if lourd would even agree with what your doing. He would of course encourage intellectual discussions here rather than ramblings.rnrnOne thing for sure I am following this blog because lourd and other commenters give me new ideas to think for myself and not just absorb whatever he says.
  • Suspetsoso Oct 08 2010 @ 11:02pm Report Abuse
    I said cite examples. Would you like that I sic the Spot.Police on your postings?
  • Cadium Oct 08 2010 @ 10:42pm Report Abuse
    @Lithium,rnrnI agree but at least the Spot.Police should edit and delete those st*p*d comments that are pure nonsense.
  • Dr.Kildare Oct 08 2010 @ 10:38pm Report Abuse
    @DrWally,rnrnrnNo need to get nasty my good doctor.I get your drift.
  • Topic Please Oct 08 2010 @ 10:30pm Report Abuse
    it it me or are the replies steadily going into a transition from the RH Bill to the comments and the persona/s behind them?
  • Lithium+ Oct 08 2010 @ 10:08pm Report Abuse
    well...i guess LDV has concocted a good one.rnThat's why....it attracts good commentators.rnthis forum is getting more interesting to read than the article it self! yes?rnLet everyone say what they want to say...rn
  • Dr Wally Oct 08 2010 @ 09:37pm Report Abuse
    @Dr Kildarernrnoh no, nothing as crass as that (but you never know). my point is all the vitriol hurled towards the author is actually beneficial for him in the end. only shows a lot of people read his blog---that number of hits? now that's a cash cow right there. the way some people attack the author it's as if they can actually make him stop whatever he's doing. how can i describe it? it's like tuning in to a your favorite bad tv show so you can heckle it. but you still contributed to the viewership. like someone earlier said, "it's an exercise in futility." rnrnnow unless your reason for commenting is spitting pseudo-intellectual diatribes for that self-congratulatory pat in the back, well then good for you. you're not fooling anybody, though=)
  • Puzzled Oct 08 2010 @ 09:34pm Report Abuse
    ....and the funnier part? this poser with multiple monickers, will get back and thanks on the comments that she had made in the first place. How sick is that? .....wawa naman.
  • Suspetsoso Oct 08 2010 @ 08:06pm Report Abuse
    @puzzled,rnrnYou have a suspicious mind. What makes you think so? Do you think it's all a stunt by Spot.com?Kindly elaborate your suspicions.Give examples if necessary.OK?
  • Dr.Kildare Oct 08 2010 @ 06:24pm Report Abuse
    What are you implying my good doctor? It's all staged by Spot.Com?
  • Dr Wally Oct 08 2010 @ 05:45pm Report Abuse
    145 comments. i'm always reminded of how indifference is worse than hate/anger.like it or not, these banters only make lourd's blog all the more popular. that's why i suspect most of the haters here is lourd himself=) this is how one's popularity is measured online anyway. good/bad comments are still comments. that's all that matters.
  • mang cadio Oct 08 2010 @ 05:41pm Report Abuse
    to lourd... sana yung sunod mong blog regarding sa mga pag-aaway sa mga forums,,hehe
  • mang cadio Oct 08 2010 @ 05:40pm Report Abuse
    si bastiat at si lourd....baka iisa lang..lols,rnrnrnba't nyo pinaalis si bastiat...mas maganda debate kapag parehong magaling ang magkabilang panig...dami trivia,
  • i am the walrus Oct 08 2010 @ 03:57pm Report Abuse
    "forgive my nonsense, as i also forgive the nonsense of those people who think they make sense."rnrnpeace love harmony
  • spindle Oct 08 2010 @ 03:20pm Report Abuse
    adunaphel13, if the RH Bill was past ages ago perverted freaks will be roaming around your neighborhood like buses on EDSA. Ang nilalaman ng RH Bill ay hindi naaayon dahil madami pang dapat tanggalin dito at baguhin. yun ay kung alam mo talaga ang nilalaman ng nasabing Bill. sana ay pakinggan at alamin natin ang kabilang panig dahil may demokrasya tayo at para malaman mo ang maraming bagay na hindi mo alam sa issue na ito.rnrnnga pala, hindi ito PRO or ANTI Celdran. isa lamang siyang immoral na binabae, na atat ipasa ang RH Bill dahil gusto nya isunod ang same sex marriage.
  • Puzzled Oct 08 2010 @ 02:03pm Report Abuse
    ...and the funny part is... they're commenting on their own comments para lumabas na my sense yung mga sinasabe nya. how sad, major major sad.rnrnto be continued....
  • adunaphel13 Oct 08 2010 @ 01:58pm Report Abuse
    very interesting discussion, both anti- and pro-Celdran sides have valid points. take note i talk of the Celdran issue here since i think the RH bill is a no-brainer: it should have been passed ages ago.rnrnalso, people should not devolve into name-calling, even if it is so irresistible. if you do have to insult somebody, do it with style.rnrnoh, and lourd, coming from a metalhead, it's GORGOROTH not GORGOTH. Gaahl's gonna get pissed with that oversight.rnrnblack metal ist krieg. nyahaharnrn
  • World Peace Oct 08 2010 @ 01:58pm Report Abuse
    i don't exactly agree with f. bastiat but i don't think it's right to tell him to leave this "forum". he said what was on his mind. many of us think he just wants to impress people with his writing style and that he could've used simpler words so more people could understand his point. but guys, let's just respect what each one has to say, yes? rnrnbesides, this is waaaay better than reading arguments that only contain the words "echosera" or "che".
  • Puzzled Oct 08 2010 @ 01:44pm Report Abuse
    I am really convinced that several people are posting multiple comments and using multiple names. Bakit kaya? Ito ba ang mga kampon ni Lourd?
  • Trium the Insult Comic Dog Oct 08 2010 @ 01:15pm Report Abuse
    @F. BastiatrnrnWhy don't you reveal yourself? Scared? As anon have said, your pen cuts like a knife because your hiding under a dead man's name. No honor to lose, or nothing to lose?rnrn
  • Anonymous Oct 08 2010 @ 01:07pm Report Abuse
    Malakas loob magcomment ni F. Bastiat kasi hindi naman alam ng tao kung sino siya~ la la la~
  • CoolHand Oct 08 2010 @ 01:02pm Report Abuse
    @Bastiat,rnrnWhat we've got here is a failure to communicate. Waddaya suggest? STRUNK & WHITE ?
  • ErrolTGP Oct 08 2010 @ 12:51pm Report Abuse
    @Proud to be pinoy,rnrnJust saw this article and the comments. Wow! Super ang bakbakan!!! Si @F.Bastiat daming sinasabi pero, may laman even if you do not agree with him. At ok lang kung malalim ang words niya, sisirin natin at unawain. Di ba nga we always say that Pinoys are well educated with high literacy rates (charing!), so go go go lang. Debate and discuss but not defame and destroy (sabi yan ng lolo ko...hehehe)rnrn@F.Bastiat,rnrnYou are ok but I don't agree with all you say so we can agree to disagree. :)rnrn@
  • Totoy Bibo Oct 08 2010 @ 12:47pm Report Abuse
    @F. Bastiat andrn@Ivan KaramazovrnrnAng galing kaya nila. Dami ko natututunan.rnBakit kayo nagpapaalis, inyo 'to? HahahrnHindi porque't iba ang paniniwala niyo sa kanila, ibig sabihin ay mali o masama sila. Be open-minded pips. :))
  • F. Bastiat Oct 08 2010 @ 12:30pm Report Abuse
    @Proud to be Pinoy >> Noted :)
  • Proud to be Pinoy Oct 08 2010 @ 12:09pm Report Abuse
    @F.Bastiat,rnrnIt saddens me to know you failed to understand what we have been trying to tell you. Do not make it difficult for people to understand your messages. Don't you find it frustrating to know no matter how hard you try, nobody is impressed? Worse, many people in this forum want you out. How do you feel about it? Maybe it is wise for you to try a different approach.rnrnAll the best,
  • F. Bastiat Oct 08 2010 @ 11:53am Report Abuse
    @Kate >> I actually had a chance to intern for Cato Institute one summer in college and actually got to work with George Will from 2 full weeks (as coffee guy/photocopy guy and the occasional baseball banter). Nice man.
  • Kate Oct 08 2010 @ 11:38am Report Abuse
    @ Bastiat, really? Pull up? I want you to go to the web sites of people like George Will or the Stephanapouleses of the world. I want to see your comment and give them the same thing that you do here and let me see what happens next. You are here to impress. We are not impressed.
  • F. Bastiat Oct 08 2010 @ 11:31am Report Abuse
    @Proud To Be Pinoy >> why dumb down when you can pull up? It's that simple.
  • Ivan Karamazov Oct 08 2010 @ 11:24am Report Abuse
    @PrestonrnrnPaid? hahaha yeah he's paid. That's why he is more logical. Everything revolves around money. money has the power, authority, the right perspective. The meaningless world. rnrn@F. BastiatrnrnSimplify your words, so they can REALLY fight back. Fire more!rn
  • Proud to be Pinoy Oct 08 2010 @ 11:20am Report Abuse
    @F. Bastiat,rnrnThe fact that I need to use a tool to understand your English, doesn't that tell you anything? Did you know that a good writer can be understood by almost everyone, and not ONLY by people who have deep vocabulary? If your objective is to express, forgive me but you are not doing a good job. If your purpose is to impress, I am telling you insulting people is not the most effective way. There are more intelligent approaches. Perhaps your English is admired by some of us, but most people in this forum are after the content of the message, not the grammar.rnrnReading between the lines, when people say START YOUR OWN BLOG, people are actually saying LEAVE THIS FORUM. For your sake, I hope I am wrong.rnrnBest regards,
  • F. Bastiat Oct 08 2010 @ 10:49am Report Abuse
    @Preston >> Flattered as I am that you are impressed, but my initial post on Mr. de Veyra's column was to complain and to remind that not everyone who reads these pages are without any capacity to dissent. rnrnAlso, I could not understand this fixation of "start your own blog if you are so opinionated". I'm really lost on this one. Instruct the ignorant please :)
  • Kelly Oct 08 2010 @ 10:45am Report Abuse
    @Preston,rnrnWhat took you so long to figure it out? At first glance I already saw it. From the backwaters of Ohio to the streets of Manila LOL!rnrnWar!
  • Ivan Karamazov Oct 08 2010 @ 10:33am Report Abuse
    @JmakirnrnIt is true that religon creates division. But abandoning religion is an unnecessary corollary. Pantheists need not convince others to become pantheist, if all is already one and the same. rnrnAnd why do you have to surrender to God if the "self" is non-existent (therefore there's nothing to surrender) and if god (the highest abstract impersonal unconscious consciousness)is more of like a cosmic blob, an impersonal force and an absurdly transcendental being so abstract that you don't need to objectify his existence. Surrendering to it is the worst conscious act. Reaching the highest form of consciousness which is unconsciousness is simply absurd.rnrnP.S I'm speaking in Hare Krishna terms.rn
  • Preston Oct 08 2010 @ 09:49am Report Abuse
    To ALL, thanks for finally getting it. His job is to impress. It was obvious from the very beginning. With that, he should just create his own blog. Lourd is paid, Bastiat is not.
  • F.Bastiat Oct 08 2010 @ 07:39am Report Abuse
    @Proud To Be Pinoy >> You seriously need to invest in a good dictionary/thesaurus of the english language. Also, the fact of life is variety is more common than uniformity.
  • Ivan Karamazov Oct 08 2010 @ 07:29am Report Abuse
    @Im Just Sayin rnrnWhat is death and what is life? life may not be real after all. We are just mindless molecules that sprung up from a mindless universe by random chance. Is the preservation of species the summun bonum? Not really. What's the difference between an ant and a chair? What's the issue all about? is it about poverty, therefore... economics? So therefore econmics or progress is the ultimate good? iF progress is the ultimate good, then anything that slows down this process must be annihilated (for the good of the "species") that aims progress). But what if it's about morality? Isn't promiscuity bad or pre-martial sex bad? Taking away the effect ( unwanted children) doesn't take away the cause. But the cause is not really irresponsible intercourse per se, but our animalistic sexual nature. It is clear nowadays that (if it were true) our animalistic natures is alwayss over our rational nature. But if you blieve in God, material progress without morality doesn't really result to anything since "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" Right? So pre-marital and promiscuous sex is good as long as there are no babies? Ohh the end justifies the means. You christians are more machiavellians than atheists! I wouldn't say "get a life", but it's funny how you christians forget about your afterlife!
  • Proud to be Pinoy Oct 08 2010 @ 07:27am Report Abuse
    Thank you, panggulo.
  • laonghindilaan Oct 08 2010 @ 07:00am Report Abuse
    The death of one is a tragedy, the death of million is just a statistic.
  • panggulo Oct 08 2010 @ 05:28am Report Abuse
    wow ambait pla ni matiisin.. eniwei just to add ditto is actually this mark "
  • Proud to be Pinoy Oct 08 2010 @ 03:28am Report Abuse
    @Matiisin, salamat. I am learning from you.rnrn@Im Just Sayin, Salamat din. Coming from someone who is always on my opposing position, makes the word ditto sweeter.rnrn@F. Bastiat, Thank you for responding. However, I do not understand the word ZINGER. I notice you have been using words that are difficult to understand. May I know what did you hope to achieve or project when you used the word CUSS, when you can use the word BAD WORDS instead? From where I came from, we were encouraged to write to EXPRESS and not to IMPRESS. It is also said that a writer is good if his messages can be understood by gradeschoolers, and not by limited people only. Please enlighten me.
  • F.Bastiat Oct 08 2010 @ 02:38am Report Abuse
    @Proud To Be Pinoy >> For as long as you have a rational point to argue and don't use cuss words, a good zinger now and then is a great way to illustrate a point. But that's me and I'm a big fan of H.L. Mencken and Groucho Marx so there you go.rnrnBest,rnrnF.Bastiat
  • Im Just Sayin Oct 08 2010 @ 02:17am Report Abuse
    @ Proud to be PinoyrnrnDude, see @ Matiisin @ 2:01am.rnrnPeace!
  • Matiisin Oct 08 2010 @ 02:01am Report Abuse
    Paumanhin sa pagsingit @Proud to be Pinoy. It means same as above, same thing applies,to avoid repetition.
  • Proud to be Pinoy Oct 08 2010 @ 01:49am Report Abuse
    @IM JUST SAYIN, what is the meaning of DITTO? It appears good but I would like to be certain first before I answer.rnrnBest regard,
  • Jmaki Oct 08 2010 @ 01:38am Report Abuse
    Hare krishna hare krishna krishna krishna hare harernHare rama hare rama rama rama rama rama hare harernrnrnAbandon all religions and surrender unto God.rnReligion divides- just love God.rn
  • Jmaki Oct 08 2010 @ 01:38am Report Abuse
    Hare krishna hare krishna krishna krishna hare harernHare rama hare rama rama rama rama rama hare harernrnrnAbandon all religions and surrender unto God.rnReligion divides- just love God.rn
  • Im Just Sayin Oct 08 2010 @ 01:09am Report Abuse
    @ Proud to be Pinoy,rnrnDude, my "ditto" is for your comment at 12:56am and not for the one following that.rnrnPeace!
  • Im Just Sayin Oct 08 2010 @ 01:05am Report Abuse
    @ Proud to be PinoyrnrnDitto.rnrnPeace!rn
  • Proud to be Pinoy Oct 08 2010 @ 01:04am Report Abuse
    @F. BASTIAT, is it wise or foolish for anyone to insult another in this forum? Forgive me for asking.
  • Proud to be Pinoy Oct 08 2010 @ 12:56am Report Abuse
    @IM JUST SAYIN and MATIISIN, I am trying to understand the message of EL NEGRO and it all points to one thing....MAGANDA ANG SASAKYAN KO! rnrnWow EL NEGRO, sige na, maganda na ang sasakyan mo. Now let us take your argument by throwing you a question, SINO BA ANG MAS HAYUP, ANG MGA MAHIHIRAP NA NAGKAKALAT SA LANSANGAN O ANG MGA TAONG NAG-IISIP NA SAGASAAN SILA?rnrnRegards,
  • Im Just Sayin Oct 08 2010 @ 12:46am Report Abuse
    @ El Negro, @ Ivan KaramazovrnrnDudes, Killing is what it's called, plain and simple. Running over a human being because-in your lofty opinion- you considered them animals for overpopulating this country does not set you apart from the lowliest, barbaric animal. What happened to you, your humanity and your compassion? With this kind of attitude you have, please take the time to look at yourself in the mirror, you'll be surprised to see that you'll be staring at someone who is also a big part of the problem. For those who agree with these two animals, you know what type of species you belong to.rnrnPeace!rn.
  • Matiisin Oct 07 2010 @ 10:37pm Report Abuse
    Wow! Nahiya naman ako. Kayo na ang mas mataas na uri ng tao. Nandidiri kayo? Sa iisang bansa lang tayo nakatira. Bahagi lahat tayo ng problema. Sagasaan? That's the best solution you can think of? Dahil ba parang sa hayop na ang buhay nila ay wala na silang karapatang mabuhay? 'Yung pagpigil sa patuloy na paglobo ng populasyon is one thing. 'Yung pagharap sa malaki ng populasyon sa kasalukuyan is another. Bumaba ka sa mamahalin mong sasakyan at tingnan mo silang maigi. Tapos, saka mo isipin kung ano talaga ang pwede mong gawin.
  • Ivan Karamazov Oct 07 2010 @ 10:10pm Report Abuse
    El Negro sana sinagsaan mo na. makakatulong ka pa sa proper distribution ng resources. lalabas kang mas hero pa kay celdran nun.
  • Ivan Karamazov Oct 07 2010 @ 10:00pm Report Abuse
    He sure knows what useful means. What is he? A secular humanist who doesn't believe in absolutes but maintains a certain degree of morality to keep the human species? Absurd. Atheists don't need meaning and don't need progress since progress is only real and measurable if there are absolute eternal and unchanging goals. Theists on the other hand have no choice but to follow the will of God no matter what. Buddhist and Hindus need not do anything since for them everything is an illusion or maya. A marxist who is still void of God but at the same time desperately wants to give meaning to life through economics and science and politics and magazines and new social needs and and... but still meaningless. Absurd. And atheistic position must be coherent. If God doesn't everything is permissible and everything is meaningless. The debate of pro and anti RH bill is non existent to a coherent atheist, not even the preservation of species. What's the next generation got to with my temporal existence. None. The debate is not even against atheists and believers, but rather it is about believers who think they believe vs believers who know what they believe. I'm an an atheist, but I find religious people more reasonable than "Christians" who harmonize secularism and Christianity. These people are more atheists than atheists since they draw more people out of religions more than atheists do. But these converts don't help the atheistic cause either. These are weak atheists who foolishly think they can still maintain some morality. They are as weak as when they were still Christians. They think they have and can combine they materialistic, hedonistic ideologies with their religion. Weak theists make weak atheists.
  • El Negro Oct 07 2010 @ 08:36pm Report Abuse
    @indio,rnrnTotoo iyang sinabi Pare, andami na talagang tao.Kung minsan gusto ko ng sagasaan talaga, mahal lang magbayad. Nandidiri ako sa mga nakikita ko sa urban areas. Dito sa amin, Tumat**ng batang kalsada sa tapat mismo ng PNB.Ginagawa nilang dormitory kung gabi.Naglalatag ng mga karton doon.rnEwan ko kung bakit nagbubulag-bulagan ang mga P---nginang mga ito, at kunyari hindi nila nakikita. Sa Gabi naman mga nag hihin-tan doon sa bahay nilang kariton! parang mga hayup na talaga.At gusto pang dagdagan ng mga hinayupak na ito?
  • :)) Oct 07 2010 @ 08:18pm Report Abuse
    I can't see the point of F. Baistat's comment, except for the part where he argues that Mr. Celran's performance was more of an offense against religious rights, rather than a "desecration of holy ground."rnrnAfter all, it doesn't matter what you call Mr. Celdran's stunt, what actually matters there is its effect on the public opinion, which is undeniably enormous on both the sides of the pro and anti-church, and the pro and anti-artificial family planning.
  • F.Bastiat Oct 07 2010 @ 07:46pm Report Abuse
    ***THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN DELETED DUE TO VIOLATION OF SPOT.ph's TERMS & CONDITIONS.***
  • igeramos Oct 07 2010 @ 06:50pm Report Abuse
    @ First TimerrnrnIt's Carlos and not David Celdran.rnrnOverheard at the pews minutes before Celdran's arrest.rnrnPolice 1: Sino daw yung aarestuhin?rnrnPolice 2: Yung naka-Charlie Chaplin costume daw.
  • First Timer Oct 07 2010 @ 06:41pm Report Abuse
    Let someone hold a placard saying "KALBO" while David Celdran is conducting a tour, disrupt it, shout "stop meddling in politics". then let's call it even... and move on.rnrnAs for Lourd, he rocks!
  • Jerry Santos Oct 07 2010 @ 03:55pm Report Abuse
    Well nope,not an Opus Dei member,just a proud catholic(Simply Anti-RH) rnrnPlease Check http://overpopulationisamyth.com/ and THINK ABOUT IT!rnrn(I Read the Bill,All Flawed Contradictions!)
  • Bondying Oct 07 2010 @ 03:32pm Report Abuse
    blah blah blah hubris blah blah blah blah...and not a single one with the balls to even reveal their identity to back up their claims with conviction. these comments have as much gravitas as helium.
  • indio Oct 07 2010 @ 03:30pm Report Abuse
    hindi ako gaano katalinuhan, pero.. P***ngina andami nang bata sa kanto.. minsan 12 sa isang kariton.rnrn@Bastiat ano bang dapat gawin? ... marunong ka ba magtagalog?
  • LoneRanger Oct 07 2010 @ 01:43pm Report Abuse
    @Saying,rnrnIt's no use.You won't win against the army of Lourd. So give it up.It's just a cry in the wilderness... so futile.
  • Malthus Oct 07 2010 @ 01:39pm Report Abuse
    A big lie? really? are you an economist from the World Bank or an Opus Dei member?
  • Im Just Sayin Oct 07 2010 @ 01:22pm Report Abuse
    @ Jerry Santos-"BESIDES OVERPOPULATION IS A BIG LIE!! PERIOD!!"rnrnDude, I agree with you on everything EXCEPT that last part.rnrnPeace!
  • Im Just Sayin Oct 07 2010 @ 01:15pm Report Abuse
    Paging Lourd De Veyra;rnrnDude, your pathetic drones are trying very hard to defend your honor but in case you don't notice it, F. Bastien is systematically demolishing every single one of them. It's time for you to step in big man, what sayeth you? Now na!
  • Jerry Santos Oct 07 2010 @ 01:11pm Report Abuse
    Lourd,for crying OUT LOUD,LAY OFF THE PARODY PICTURES PLEASE!!!!rnrnrnC'MON CELDRAN'S ACT WAS A TRUE K.S.P ACT!!!(HE IS SUBCONSCIOUSLY,BUT HE WON'T ADMIT IT)rnrnBTW.THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS NOT A PEOPLE PLEASER/POLITICALLY CORRECT RELIGION,WE SERVE THE POOR OUR OWN WAY,NOT YOURS!!! OK?!rnrnBESIDES OVERPOPULATION IS A BIG LIE!! PERIOD!!
  • Sheba Oct 07 2010 @ 12:48pm Report Abuse
    @totoy,rnrnsa akin ayaw mo? ikaw naman, masyadong colonial- minded. Komo puti....
  • Totoy Bibo Oct 07 2010 @ 12:30pm Report Abuse
    Ok lang yan. Wala kasi silang opinyon at hindi nila madefend si Lourd that's why they just come up with st*p*d insults. Poor people. Hinihiya niyo si Lourd, kung kayo ang mga followers niya.rnWell I'm happy to know that there are still more intelligent Filipino species on earth.rn@F. Bastiat & @Solomon I personally want to know you!! :))
  • P.tasyo Oct 07 2010 @ 12:04pm Report Abuse
    kaya nga nagkaroon ng comment box dito ay para magbigay ng kuro kuro eh...hindi para mambaboy ng opinion ng iba o mangtroll....hay naku generation ngayon...
  • F. Bastiat Oct 07 2010 @ 12:02pm Report Abuse
    @Ces >> My sister is the shyster of the family. I just a dog-catcher of Jefferson County, Ohio. :)
  • Ces Oct 07 2010 @ 11:58am Report Abuse
    I perfectly understand. I don't need your legalese spin. If you follow the thread, you kept on spinning. That's why we hate lawyers.
  • F. Bastiat Oct 07 2010 @ 11:48am Report Abuse
    @Ces >> You see under Maryland law the protesters were perfectly within their rights to protest. Filing a civil suit is another thing (it is legal for people to do so, if you must know, but it does not prove them right) and they seem to have won a $5 million civil claim vs the protesters. rnrnNow the US Supreme Court is hearing the case on whether the $5 million be upheld and awarded. Of course, I smell some of the conservatives of the Supreme Court wanting to limit free speech here but it will be a test of the "public concern vs captive audience" arguments of both sides.rnrnSo please, Ces, think, read, understand.rnrnBest,rnrnF. Bastiat
  • Ces Oct 07 2010 @ 11:39am Report Abuse
    Wrong again. Or else the family would not file a civil rights complaint.
  • F. Bastiat Oct 07 2010 @ 11:18am Report Abuse
    @Ces >> keyword phrase here is "outside the Church while the funeral mass for a dead soldier was going on". Ergo, they indeed demonstrated respect for religious rights vs. their right to protest.
  • Ces Oct 07 2010 @ 11:13am Report Abuse
    "if one person's right to free speech insults another's right to worship, clearly there are violations of civil rights." WRONG. Let us watch closely what happens to Phelps. His group was protesting outside the Church while the funeral mass for a dead soldier was going on. Don't tell me this is a different situation. LOL
  • Ambo Oct 07 2010 @ 11:06am Report Abuse
    Enough Already! ang totoo niyan,NAI-INGINGGIT LANG KAYO KI LOURD! you haven't earned enough GRAVITAS to F--K with Lourd...rnHere's an unsolicited advice to all the wise-ass there: Convince Spot.Ph to hire you as blog writers and then we will banter. Clear enough for you?
  • mang cadio Oct 07 2010 @ 11:05am Report Abuse
    badtrip...di lang pasok sa paniniwala nyo yung sinasabi nung isa, magda-dada na kayo ng kung anu-anong kagaguhan...maganda na yung usapan eh, wala ng babuyan...
  • F. Bastiat Oct 07 2010 @ 10:34am Report Abuse
    As much as I have restrained to do so, constant reminders of a response is already getting to be like the Borg's warning: "resistance if futile"...So here we go. Again.rnrn@Izzy >> First point: on the ecumentical gathering, civil and religious rights. Granted that Mr. Celdran did indeed disturb a ecumenical gathering as the one you describe, we can be pretty certain that the faithful gathered are not there for details on the next bingo night or a planned Church bazaar. They are there in the exercise of their religion which makes Mr. Celdran's stunt, as I have pointed out, a trampling on the right of people to assemble and practice their faith. So even if as you put it "It wasn't a worship service per se, it was just a lot of people hanging out together and being good Christians" can you make a basic logical conclusion that the right to exercise one's religion is clearly being performed in such a gathering?rnrnSecond point: on this concept of 'holiness' and your comic book understanding of Catholicism (I can't believe a Jew is lecturing a lapsed Catholic on Catholic Doctrine, go figure). You also mentioned that "the holiness of the occasion is marked by the presence of said eucharist". One can surmise that in your worldview holiness requires the presence of the eucharist. However, if one turns to a Doctor of the Catholic Church, St. Thomas Aquinas (who has influenced virtually everything in Catholic philosophy) this is how he defines holiness "as that virtue by which a man's mind applies itself and all its acts to God". rnrnSo this ecumenical gathering you mentioned, I'm willing to bet my last dollar that--other than Mr. Celdran--the faithful gathered there demonstrated that virture to which their thoughts to God. Why else gather in such great digs and "wear robes and wear funny hats" but to direct such action to God. Right?rnrnThird point: Your understanding of "civil right to worship". Let me quote you here (again) "You mentioned a person's "civil right to worship" --> this does not and should not be exclusive to freedom of speech." The right to believe is intimately connected to the right to think and to speak but if one person's right to free speech insults another's right to worship, clearly there are violations of civil rights. Where your right ends is where another begins. This is sometimes referred to (in my libertarian circles) as the the non-aggression axiom. The rule of law is founded upon this as modern jurisprudence emanates from Thomas Jefferson's idea that our rights come from our humanity (which is perfectly free) and our humanity come from God (a perfectly free being).rnrnYou also argue--erroneously--that "Did he engage in any behaviour that would resemble or result in rndiscrimination and/or potential harm? No. I don't see why you're trying to defend our right to worship when it obviously wasn't being impinged upon." Izzy, my boy, I must say you have it wrong here. Yes he did engage in behavior that resulted in discrimination, you forget his words "Do not meddle in politics"--he rudely told one group of like-minded people that they have no right to do something when he could do it in a more respectful way. This is also behavior that would result in potential harm for the simple reason that, as I have pointed out before, could be copied by anyone radical, audacious and intolerant enough.rnrnFourth point: Your understanding of my comments on Philippine history circa 1890 AD. "You can't base your knowledge of Philippine history on what the "smart and educated class" were experiencing at the time, especially when most of the population is not part of that social strata." If you are capable of proper reading comprehension skills, I pointed out what Mr. de Veyra said "Especially if you happen to be smart, educated, and living in the Philippines circa 1890s, at time when we were still worrying about purgatory rnand venal sins while the Western world was talking about laboratory barometers and democracy." and go on to point out that the Filipino intelligensia of this period was indeed engaged in the Philippine revolutionary movement, either for or against it. My basis here was the Philippine historical collections when I attended Yale, they have an impressive lot and one can access Spanish era civil government journals, newspapers, American colonial government reports all showing that vibrant attention of late 19th rncentury Filipinos on the brave "revolutionarios", "rebeldes idios".rnrnAs for your last points on music, I let you marinate on what I was thinking on that point.rnrnBest,rnrnF.BastiatrnrnPS. Hello @Ces! :))
  • Ces Oct 07 2010 @ 08:41am Report Abuse
    @ mhariestar, Bastiat's arguments were already proven wrong by izzy point-by-point. What else do you want?
  • F.Bastiat Oct 07 2010 @ 07:50am Report Abuse
    It is interesting and instructive to find how the supposedly intelligent, educated, smart, digitally-aware and upwardly mobile youth of today's Philippines are demonstrably incapable of the simplest dissent on a popular and socially relevant issue. Civility, it would seem, is a relic of a bygone era and rational thought is an illusion. rnrnOne could really could not distinguish between the monolithic CBCP (who claims to preach from a moral high ground) and the so-called "Lourdian drones" (who claims to carry the banner of reason) once a reasoned contrary view is proposed.rnrnBest,rnrnF.Bastiat
  • mhariestar Oct 07 2010 @ 04:37am Report Abuse
    REPOSTING and now edited since I haven't noticed I violated earlier. lolrnrnAs I was saying, F. Bastiat has all the right in the world to criticize or praise this blog if he wants to. Yes, he is just another nobody as compared to Lourd. But so as we other commenters as well.rnrnSo to other followers of Lourd, LOURD may most of the time right but he is not GOD. I follow this blog but it doesn't mean I am always on his side.rnrnIf you don't agree with F. Bastiat then show your arguments guys and don't act like irrational or immature kids using the internet. Not unless you all just go follow whatever LOURD says and that is sick.rnrn
  • Neneng Oct 07 2010 @ 04:33am Report Abuse

    ***THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN DELETED DUE TO VIOLATION OF SPOT.ph's TERMS & CONDITIONS.***

  • mhariestar Oct 07 2010 @ 04:23am Report Abuse
    I just don't understand why some followers of this blog needs to always be on the same side with Lourd. If F.Bastiat is disagreeing with Lourd then let him be. You don't need to nail and crucify him. I think he just expressed his opinions like we, other commenters do. If he is a nobody then who cares? You other commenters are nobody as well.rnrnIt is his right to read this blog, criticize or praise it if he wants to.rnrnI also follow this blog religiously but this doesn't mean I'm always on Lourd's side.rnrnSo if you guys don't agree with F. Bastiat then show your arguments. Please don't act like uneducated or immature readers using the internet.rnrnYou can show disagreement but not act like *ssh*l*s.rnrnLourd maybe often times right but he is not GOD.rn
  • Totoy Bibo Oct 07 2010 @ 01:57am Report Abuse
    Wow. Galing ng arguments. Durog si Lourd. Sayang mga weak yung mga guardians n'ya, 'di siya mapagtanggol ng maayos. At di niya rin ma-defend arguments niya, hanggang basa lang kasi ng mga komento si Lourd. :p HahaharnrnF. Bastiat what's your real name I'm gonna follow you. :))
  • AlexPortnoy Oct 07 2010 @ 12:20am Report Abuse
    Pa- impress lang yun. Akala niya niya komo taga Cleveland siya at lokal lang tayo pwede na tayong paandaran.Buti sinupalpal ni izzy.
  • Ces Oct 07 2010 @ 12:04am Report Abuse
    @ izzy, great job. I love your response to each of Bastiat's points. This is proof that elegant English and flowery language does not make one's points accurate. Let the buyers beware.
  • DaPolice Oct 06 2010 @ 11:50pm Report Abuse
    Paging the Spot police, repeat, paging the spot police: Delete all the trolls postings HORA MISMO!
  • Pipit Oct 06 2010 @ 11:15pm Report Abuse
    @ F.BastiatrnrnGuess this explains how good you are. Your a nobody who comments on a blog of a great writer. Better go back to playing your video games kiddo.
  • igeramos Oct 06 2010 @ 11:13pm Report Abuse
    wala na, ang ganda na sana ng usapan, nauwi na naman sa babuyan.
  • panggulo Oct 06 2010 @ 11:09pm Report Abuse
    magkakaroon ng world war III dahil sa usaping panrelihiyon..
  • FernandoFellatio Oct 06 2010 @ 11:05pm Report Abuse

    ***THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN DELETED DUE TO VIOLATION OF SPOT.ph's TERMS & CONDITIONS.***

  • FernandoFellatio Oct 06 2010 @ 11:00pm Report Abuse
    @Im just saying,rnrngot yourself a kindred-spirit pinhead?rnrnCheers to the lone star state!
  • F.Bastiat Oct 06 2010 @ 10:56pm Report Abuse

    ***THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN DELETED DUE TO VIOLATION OF SPOT.ph's TERMS & CONDITIONS.***

  • F.Bastiat Oct 06 2010 @ 10:54pm Report Abuse
    BAKLA PO TALAGA AKO!rnrnBAKLA!
  • Im Just Sayin Oct 06 2010 @ 10:48pm Report Abuse
    @ F.BastiatrnrnDude, you R-O-C-K it? Where have you been all these time? Great piece you had there, impressive! it was just too bad these Lourdenistas lunatics are now cyber -tasering you left and right. rnrnTell you what I think about these Loudenistas ok?, they were always like the 16 year olds idiot at the parties, getting stoned, drunk and ranting about how Lourds' writings were like poetry or something....like that was a deep thoughts. Pathetic little fools!rnrnPeace to you and the Buckeye state!
  • Linda Oct 06 2010 @ 10:34pm Report Abuse
    ...And how would you feel if government agencies like PAGCOR and PCSO donate HUGE sums of money to the Catholic Church? Why? That is taxpayers' money that should not be channeled to ONE religion. THAT is unacceptable. THAT should stop. I urge the Senate or the House of Representathieves to calculate how much money goes to the Catholic Church.
  • Mikay Oct 06 2010 @ 10:04pm Report Abuse
    Ano ba yan... To each his own. May kanya-kanya tayong take sa artik na ito, may kanya-kanyang paniniwala. Wag ng magpersonalan yung mga tao sa itaas ko tsk tsk. rnrnAt para sa'yo Lourd. Nakakainis ka... kasi nakakainlab ka!!! I like your articles, your songs... gah I just like you.
  • igeramos Oct 06 2010 @ 09:05pm Report Abuse
    @SolomonrnrnYes, I've read the RH Bill, all six versions of it. I just hope that P-Noy does not succumb to the dictates of the Church. If that's the case, why doesn't he open the door to the Aglipayan, the Imams and Buddhist Monks and include them in the forum?rnrnThe piece written by Lourd is a creative non-fiction, it is meant to entertain and to contextualize Celdran's "deplorable" action by citing "deplorable" events that came before him. If you read the text clearly without clouding your mind with anger and religious bias, he simply states that the church remains steadfast in spite of these creative bullying. rnrnAlso you don't have to use Atty Montes's letter as a crutch to validate your point. Now, that I get your point, how would an atheist feel when while shopping at a purportedly secular supermarket and suddenly at noon everybody stops and pray the Hail Mary? Isn't that offending their belief (or non-belief, if there is such a word)? How would the born again or Muslim shoppers feel about it? Isn't this an insensitive act?rnrnrnrnrn
  • ilovemyfaith Oct 06 2010 @ 08:44pm Report Abuse
    hmm.. people with shallow faith can easily be disrupted by such articles, opinions, teachings and proclamations whatsoever. Stating, God let some of his children to suffer martyrdom in proclaiming his words.I encourage all Christian's to practice this. Proclaim God's intentions! What if in that intercourse God has planned to give to the couple a child?rnGo forth and multiply! It does not end there. God said go forth and multiply to proclaim the good news till the ends of the earth. SEX is a gift from God because all things are gifts from God. Therefore, if we will permit contraception, we are beating the soul purpose of this gift, to multiply. Because you are preventing conception. SEX is for PROCREATION, not for PLEASURE!
  • igeramos Oct 06 2010 @ 08:35pm Report Abuse
    @Tita Aida, yes, I'll be attending the UST gig, after all, as what Lourd mentioned, "matigas na ang buto ko" at "pwede na akong sumagot". Kung magkakaroon man ng excommunication, baka kahalati ng Fine Arts at Journalism Departments hindi na makakarating.
  • igeramos Oct 06 2010 @ 08:17pm Report Abuse
    @F. BastiatrnrnI miss you already. Sweet dreams. Je veux vous embrasser tellement.
  • Sheba Oct 06 2010 @ 08:04pm Report Abuse
    Props to Solomon and the reactionary Opus Dei!rnrnNO TO 100 MILLION HUNGRY UNEDUCATED FILIPINOS!
  • Lestat de Lioncourt Oct 06 2010 @ 07:53pm Report Abuse
    @Solomon, history has seen way too many great writers who did not use their talents to advance their religious devotion, not that that's bad. Being a good writer does not have to equal being a Devout Catholic or devout whatever. Look it up.rnrnWhy do so many people keep harping on the Very Impressive English Skills of LDV or whoever? At the very least, attack the argument being presented and lay off the backhanded English proficiency compliments. It's not as if mastery in English is the sole province of the educated. rnrnIMO, LDV has something to say about the issue and HAPPENS to be quite good in the language, which is why he's writing for spot.ph and getting paid for it in the first place.
  • F. Bastiat Oct 06 2010 @ 07:42pm Report Abuse
    @igeramos >> Worry not I'll just be around. Don't miss me much, ok?.rnrnKisses,rnF.Bastiat
  • F. Bastiat Oct 06 2010 @ 07:36pm Report Abuse
    @Izzy >> Not a Republican nor conservative. Sorry kid.
  • diyos ko Oct 06 2010 @ 07:33pm Report Abuse
    I really do hope that P-Noy is a closet Rationalist/Agnostic/Free thinker.
  • Solomon Oct 06 2010 @ 07:11pm Report Abuse
    I think Mr. de Veyra's piece is deplorable and appalling to say the least. Not too many years ago, some guy drew a caricature ridiculing the Muslim prophet Mohammad and the entire Muslim faithful were up in arms about it. Here we have de Veyra's piece filled with insult to our Church, not to mention the disgusting graphic content, and most of you are praising his work? What can I say, ALL OF YOU ARE MORONS! At least Celdran's stunt, though equally lamentable, was contained inside a Church. Mr. de Veyra's piece on the other hand is set on a much more global platform, and instead of deploring it, you idiots are cheering him on! No wonder we are losing ground to the Muslims.rnrnLet's look at the very root of the matter, the thing which started this all, which is the Reproductive Health Bill. Have any of you even read the bill? Did you know that if the bill were passed, private sector employers and private health practitioners (doctors, nurses, etc.) could be held criminally liable if they do not actively promote artificial birth control methods and distribute devices whether or not these agree with your conscience or religious convictions? (HB5043 SEC. 17); Did you know that if your child was raped and was found pregnant, under the RH BILL, you lose your parental authority over your child? (SEC. 21 a3); and did you know that if you expressed any opinion against any provision of this law, you can be thrown into jail and/or fined? (Section 21 on Prohibited Acts, Paragraph f and Section 22 on Penalties). These are but excerpts of the RH BILL which most people do not know nor understand.rnrnI don't think even Mr. Celdran read it, for if he did, he would not have carried out his dastardly stunt.rnrnI would like to include Mr. Roberto de Ocampo's column about the bill made a year ago as reference. http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinion/columns/view/20091127-238839/Kill-BillrnrnNow regarding Mr. Celdran's stunt, Atty. Montes had this to say:rnrn"Dear Editor:rnrnToday's editorial calling for the repeal of the law penalizing offending religious feelings ("The Philippine Star", October 2, 2010, p. 14) is highly misinformed.rnrnFirst of all, it is inaccurate to portray Carlos Celdran as a martyr for his free speech rights. He is not being charged for simply expressing his views; hence your fear that "80 percent of the population who through surveys have expressed support for birth control" could be imprisoned for offending religious feelings is unfounded. He is being charged for having scoffed at church authority during the mass and inside a church. Please take the trouble of researching what Article 133 of the Revised Penal Code actually penalizes. The constitution protects Carlos Celdran's right to express his views, no matter how unconventional they may be, but the constitution likewise protects the rights of everyone to worship according to their religious beliefs in peace. While he has the right to express dissenting opinions, he has no right to infringe on other people's right to worship in peace.rnrnSecond, the provision penalizing offending religious feelings applies to all religions alike. To repeal the law against offending religious feelings would be to expose all religions -- and not just the Catholic religion -- to contempt. The repeal would mean anyone can burn the Koran inside a mosque during an Islamic service, or make a heated attack on Manalo inside an Iglesia ni Cristo building during their Thursday pagsamba. These scenarios hardly promote mutual understanding among religions. The above mentioned examples are offensive to modern sensibilities; a similar affront on the Catholic religion is no less offensive. rnrnFor quite some time, I have been disappointed with your newspaper which, while printing inspirational quotes about God on its footer and daily biblical commentaries, prints a lot of articles and editorials supporting the RH bill. I have tolerated your publication of these articles even if I don't agree with them. But your approval of Carlos Celdran's offensive behavior is no longer a healthy exercise of free speech; it is an affront to what the majority of the population holds sacred. Please consider my subscription to your newspaper cancelled.rnrnSincerely,rnAtty. Cristina A. Montes"rnrnI took the liberty of posting Atty. Montes's letter to the Philippine Star as it has significant bearing to the matter. This letter has been circulating the internet.rnrnGoing back to Mr. de Veyra, it is a pity that someone with a seemingly perceivable grasp of the English language and talent for convincing people (then again, so was Bernard Madoff of the fabled Wall Street fiasco), chooses to use his talent to defy God and insult his Church. I will pray for you Mr. de Veyra, that you find your way back to God's faithful where your talents will be better served.rn
  • igeramos Oct 06 2010 @ 07:05pm Report Abuse
    @SatanrnrnI think Lourd's an atheist. Meaning, he doesn't believe in YOU and hell as well.
  • Satan Oct 06 2010 @ 06:53pm Report Abuse
    LOL for capitalizing the H.rnrnis lourd still a believer?rnrnPeople are much afraid to burn in hell... or catch a cancer. rnrn
  • igeramos Oct 06 2010 @ 06:37pm Report Abuse
    @sigeramos rnstop basking on reflected glory.rnrn@f.bastiatrnWe all have our 15 mins of fame and your time is up. I read your piece and its point well taken. But please, don't even attempt to become a grammar police, this is the Internet. The difference between Lourd and us is that he is paid for what he whines about. Better find a platform where you can spew your vitriolic rant and get paid at the same time. And for media milage's sake, use your real name. There's no need to hide behind the skirt of some obscure French clergy.rn
  • izzy Oct 06 2010 @ 06:20pm Report Abuse
    In response to F. Bastiat (because he's the only Jewish Republican I've come across on spot.ph):rnrn"First, Mr. Celdran's stunt was not "a desecration of holy ground" but it rightfully a trampling on the right of people to assemble and practice their faith. By interrupting a religious worship service (i.e. Holy Mass) Mr. Celdran ran roughshot over the freedom to worship in peace and quiet piety."rnrnCORRECTION: Carlos interrupted an ecumenical gathering, where the eucharist was not present. As it was in the Manila Cathedral and not in a synagogue or a mosque, the holiness of the occasion is marked by the presence of said eucharist. It wasn't a worship service per se, it was just a lot of people hanging out together and being good Christians, with a couple of folks on the altar wearing robes and funny hats. Without corpus christi, it's not a mass.rnrnSecondly: If you think that anybody will attempt to stage a protest in church after this, you'd be sorely mistaken. Lourd is right in describing Carlos' outbursts as a performance. He's a performance activist, who knew? But still -- while the rest of the church grows old and dies, the Philippines is still in the middle ages. Nobody is going to try and flout the church simply because people are more concerned with the state of their eternal souls than their ovaries. This is the saddest truth of all.rnrnYou mentioned a person's "civil right to worship" --> this does not and should not be exclusive to freedom of speech. Did Carlos lambast the religion? No. Did he deride the Christian faithful? No. Did he engage in any behaviour that would resemble or result in discrimination and/or potential harm? No. I don't see why you're trying to defend our right to worship when it obviously wasn't being impinged upon.rnrn"you idiotically lamented...Oi Vey!!! Have you even read Philippine history? If you were in the Philippines during the 1890's the most pressing issue of the day was the Philippine revolutionary movement! Every smart and educated class was either in its favor (of course in secret) or overtly not in favor (obviously sucking up to clerical and civil authorities). Contemplation of purgatory and venal sins was simply not in your top ten list."rnrnSa sarili kong wika: nagpapatawa ka ba? You can't base your knowledge of Philippine history on what the "smart and educated class" were experiencing at the time, especially when most of the population is not part of that social strata. That's like assuming that the football hooligans in Manchester pubs experience the same thought processes as the boys at Eton. A lovely fantasy, but not a very likely one, my friend.rnrn"So please, you have a good grasp of english (for a "rock star"?), your demonstrate subject and verb agreement and has some semblance of reasoning skills. But kid you still need a LOT of work on the thinking and rational argument area"rnrnWhy do you keep referencing Lourd's affiliation with music? Do you find it shameful? Do you think that KISS stands for "Knights in Satan's Service"? Are you from Regnum Christi, the religious order that the Pope ordered an inquisition into on grounds of it being a cult? Didn't anyone hug you as a child? Why would you compliment Lourd's English skills? Do you assume that someone who is not from Buttf*ck, Ohio cannot put a simple sentence together, much less write an opinion piece? Did you know that your last rejoinder did not demonstrate subject-verb agreement, thus immensely undermining your credibility? Are you the sort of chap who makes a perfect argument for st*p*d Americans, just by trying to be smart? Why would you say Lourd wasn't thinking rationally, when obviously he can craft an argument better than you? Why is the spacing your comment different from everybody else's? Did you copy-paste it from somewhere else? Did your mail-order bride ask you "is it in?" -- or am I just being snarky?rnrnRgds,rnrnIzzy
  • kapengmabula Oct 06 2010 @ 06:10pm Report Abuse
    @carlosceldran, kuya, ikaw ba talaga yan? (baka kasi poser ka, mahirap na, sori po) idol kita although medyo ilang ako na sa simbahan mo ginawa yun, desperate times call for desperate measures ika nga. sana walang inserted provisions for abortion ang RH bill. @Lourd, best researched article EVER! i love it. bookworm ka talaga, mainam kang source of quotable quotes
  • Jay-R Oct 06 2010 @ 04:57pm Report Abuse
    As much as I am impressed by this article and in support of Mr. Celdran's advocacy, I still stand in disagreement with his actions.rnrnTo put it bluntly, I don't want any one crashing and making a mess of my party. His offense is made worse by the fact that the intrusion was done during a solemn gathering.
  • carlosceldran Oct 06 2010 @ 04:01pm Report Abuse
    Haynako. Play nice y'all. Kthanxbye.
  • 9bbk Oct 06 2010 @ 04:00pm Report Abuse
    I can't believe this article is written by a UST grad. You know, that school being run by priests. ;-) But it just goes to show how gutsy you are to say what is on your mind. And what a great mind you have, Lourd. Bravo!rnThe main artwork is also great. I must say, SPOT.ph is getting better and better.
  • peeping tomas Oct 06 2010 @ 03:40pm Report Abuse
    ...sabi nga ng mga matatandang tambay sa luneta, basta rehilyon ang usapan wala na itong katapusan.
  • bulag Oct 06 2010 @ 03:38pm Report Abuse
    epal lang. I have that book by Hitchens. bought and read it nung 2007 pa. and it's a very, very good read. sana mabasa ng lahat na may bukas na pag-iisip. Religion poisons everything.rnrnsyangapala, wonderful dig on the insight by Nick Joaquin there. Religion indeed poisons everything. tayong mga Pinoy, bulag o nagbubulag-bulagan lang na manatiling kumapit sa baluktot at mapangabusong paniniwala (ayokong tawaging pananampalataya kasi iba yun) dahil siguro sa takot sa ating pamilya na tumiwalag sa ating kinalakihan o sa pamilyang saradong katoliko. o kahit anumang paniniwala pero karamihan sa atin katoliko kaya yun.
  • Tonyo Oct 06 2010 @ 03:34pm Report Abuse
    A commenter has too much time in his hands. Nuff said. Bravo Lourd. Though I suspect the heaviest detractors here is you just having fun with us=)
  • spook Oct 06 2010 @ 03:24pm Report Abuse
    Gervie, you clearly do not know what RH Bill contain. hindi lang ito ang nilalaman ng RH Bill, marami pa dapat baguhin at tanggalin dahil buhay na ang nakasalalay at moralidad na ang pinaguusapan. alamin mo muna, at makinig ka sa bawat panig. lalo na sa kinokontra mong partido.
  • F. Bastiat Oct 06 2010 @ 03:23pm Report Abuse
    @batoush >> F. Bastiat is short for Frederic Bastiat, a French libertarian economist of the 19th century. Google him up. Sorry, the homeboy ain't a priest. :)
  • SAGO Oct 06 2010 @ 03:20pm Report Abuse

    LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA...

  • Denis del Callar Oct 06 2010 @ 03:19pm Report Abuse
    @F.Bastiat: well said sir. If and when it becomes true that everything is permitted and nothing is sacred, humanity will cease.
  • batoush Oct 06 2010 @ 03:17pm Report Abuse
    sorry, this time I am with F. Bastiat who apparently have a background on philosophy and cannon law. Thank you Father Bastiat, but i still marvel at Carlos Celdran's performance. The guy is driven and he's got the balls to do it. rnIts david vs goliath here. We should level the playing field. Both the church and celdran are using the wrong forum. rnThey should take the fight somewhere else not inside the church not when the mass is going on.rnnow im ready for my excommunication and i will see you all in hell
  • sigeramos Oct 06 2010 @ 03:14pm Report Abuse
    @F. Bastiatrnyou should ask spot.ph to hire you and dethrone Lourd from his kingdom. you're as obnoxious as Lourd without even trying.
  • F. Bastiat Oct 06 2010 @ 03:02pm Report Abuse
    @Carlo >> Your reasoned response deserves a succinct reply. I do not have any problem with Mr. Celdran's lament about how Philippine governments have placed as you well put it "put religion too much on a pedestal to the effect that it bites how it legislates and takes care of its citizens". This is not a surprise since politicians love to pander and who better than a vote-rich group like religions (which in these shores, any two bit weirdo can mount one with some charisma, acting and bizzare logic skills).rnrnBut in Mr. Celdran's attempt to provoke action, debate and attention, he also disregarded some equally important civil rights (as I have explained in my impressive reply--as per @Marj's description of the same). I would suggest the following: if he was respectful of the right of citizens to assemble and practice their faith, could he have instead pulled his Damaso stunt at the end of the Mass inside the Church? Again my point here its ok to do your stunt but not at the cost of trampling the rights of another. Even if it is the right to believe or worship one's belief.rnrnBut as to the other points in Mr. de Veyra's piece regarding how the monolithic clergy is idiotically grappling with the realities of 21st century demographic trends and economics, I have no quarrel with this, as also your point...even if Mr. de Veyra struggles to make a rational case with style but devoid of sound logic.rnrnBest,rnF.Bastiat
  • Marj Oct 06 2010 @ 02:33pm Report Abuse
    @ RobertDinero, to answer your question, the objective of the long piece is pure and simple: to impress. It is no different from what we call now as “Google Bigotry” or the belief that media people are going after Google’s success for no good reason other than their own jealousy. In reality, these commenters are just a bunch of envious cry-babies who can't create their own blogs nor get hired by a reputable publishing company. Like Carlos, who I admire, they have to do something to get noticed. So far it works.
  • Carlo Oct 06 2010 @ 02:25pm Report Abuse
    Forgot to say it pala: To everyone who went ragemode at F. Bastiat, please stop it-- it makes us (the people who support Lourd and Celdran) look immature and lame. Hate the argument, not the person.
  • Carlo Oct 06 2010 @ 02:23pm Report Abuse
    @F. BastiatrnThe means that Celdran protested is conceded to be bad. Yes, he openly admitted that the way he disrupted mass and "offended" the feelings of the clergy is regrettable-- and you're still missing his point. It is not about Celdran, it never was. The problem is, governments put religion too much on a pedestal to the effect that it bites how it legislates and takes care of its citizens. Celdran was merely fed up with the constant whinging of the church; and how it disregards other peoples' take on the matter-- it assumes that however the Bible or the Vatican interprets certain acts (such as contraception) is set in stone and cannot be compromised with the values of the people. Governments need to be objective, and I think it's high time our government grew some balls and legislate for the better.rnrnHope that shed some light into the matter. It's not about how the message is delivered, the thing that matters is the content of the message.
  • rev.ceejay Oct 06 2010 @ 02:20pm Report Abuse
    love it!
  • Gervie Oct 06 2010 @ 02:16pm Report Abuse
    I don't know why the Catholic Church adversely reacted to the RH Bill.. artificial contraceptives has been with us for a very long time now.. health clinics has been giving samples for so long already, pharmacies & hospitals have been selling contraceptives & performing medical procedures.. the only difference is that the government will back it up blatantly. The government will now openly support family planning. It won't make any difference because we've been living into it already. We have our own free will, it's up to us whether we wanted to adapt whatever form of family planning do we think would best suit us. It's not as if we are promoting ABORTION already, the government just wanted to give us the options, educate the people on the pros & cons of having a well planned family life. Let the people decide.rnrnAs for Carlos Celdran, I agree that if he did his "stunt" outside Manila Cathedral, it wouldn't have gotten the same reaction that it has now. Of course, he has to do somehting drastic for him to convey his message clearly. What better venue would it be than inside the Cathedral with all the clergy watching him. His message is simple, let the people decide whatever is best for him.. after all, that's what free will is all about. The Church is there to guide us, morally & spritually but never to dictate what should its members do.rnrnKeyword: respect for everyone..
  • F. Bastiat Oct 06 2010 @ 02:08pm Report Abuse
    @RobertDinero >> "Why are there a--holes everywhere?" I'm pretty sure the CBCP was saying this among themselves after the Celdran stunt...wait, are you one of the bish...no! doh!
  • RobertDinero Oct 06 2010 @ 02:01pm Report Abuse
    @marj,rnrnWhy are there a--holes everywhere? even Lourd's blog is vulnerable.Witness this new dolt's rambling trying to impress us he is smarter than Lourd. There are only two young writers I read. Jessica Zafra, and Lourd ...rnrnCare to explain?
  • adatan Oct 06 2010 @ 01:55pm Report Abuse
    F. Bastiat: You lost me after the first 2 sentences.... Poor you...
  • Bast Oct 06 2010 @ 01:53pm Report Abuse
    I neither enthusiastically agree nor completely disagree with Lourd's article, but wow, just look at how the five (out of seven) of you have completely jumped onto Bastiat's surprisingly lucid (we ARE after all on the Internet, in a Filipino website viewed and seemingly commented on mostly by Filipinos) reaction with very little lucidity or articulateness of your own to add to what might possibly have been fruitful, intelligent, eloquent discourse. It would not seem to bode well for Lourd's readership/fans.rnrn(No, my username may superficially appear to resemble Bastiat's, so some or many of you might launch off of that to assume that I am somehow related to or acquainted with him, but I am not.)rnrnThat said, thanks for the interesting essay, Lourd. (Sorry for the long intro.) I didn't know Nick Joaquin had made such an observation. Very enlightening.
  • lelong Oct 06 2010 @ 01:52pm Report Abuse
    church na naman ang inapi, kawawa naman sila nasaktan ang kanilang damdamin.
  • I ain\'t Saying Oct 06 2010 @ 01:52pm Report Abuse
    @F.Bastiat,rnrnOh yeah,oh yeah, I'm already trembling,I'm extremely impressed LOL!rnrn@spindle, who are you? Bastiat's b*tch?
  • Ces Oct 06 2010 @ 01:51pm Report Abuse
    @ spindle, unless you were caught sleeping inside the convent, you would know that majority rule is a characteristic of a democracy. Padre Damaso's lap dogs, you can keep your ticks.
  • Ces Oct 06 2010 @ 01:45pm Report Abuse
    @ spindle, unless you were caught sleeping in the convent, you would know that majority rule is a characteristic of a democracy. I would rather be Carlos' b*tch than be Padre Damaso's lap dog.
  • Pak u ->F.Bastiat Oct 06 2010 @ 01:34pm Report Abuse
    Hihihi
  • spindle Oct 06 2010 @ 01:33pm Report Abuse
    F.Bastiat, BINGO!!! I thought every spot readers had become Celdran's b*tch. But, it is still an unthinking majority.
  • Siouxsie Oct 06 2010 @ 01:32pm Report Abuse
    F. Bastiat, rnrnStart your own blog Einstein.
  • F. Bastiat Oct 06 2010 @ 01:19pm Report Abuse
    @I ain\'t Saying >> I'm editor, founder, publisher, inker, writer, spellchecker of The Royal, Ancient, Futuristic, Pre-Medieval But Post-Modern Until The Beatles Broke Up Magazine of Turkish Weaving For Spinsters of Cleveland (and one-time pimp but part-time head dog-catcher of Stubenville, Ohio) :P
  • Marj Oct 06 2010 @ 01:14pm Report Abuse
    @ I ain't, I agree. You were just ahead of me in commenting. It is a long and unimpressive diss. It is long to present a semblance of shock and awe. Good try. It will definitely not rain on Lourd's parade.
  • carlosceldran Oct 06 2010 @ 01:13pm Report Abuse
    Idol.
  • I ain\'t Saying Oct 06 2010 @ 01:06pm Report Abuse
    @Bastiat,rnrnwho are you? critic of the New York Times magazine edition? New Yorker ? I can smell a sniff of condescencion. If proven true ,you better get the f--ck outta here...leave Lourd to us.
  • F. Bastiat Oct 06 2010 @ 12:46pm Report Abuse
    Wow. I don't know where to start. Your article was sent to me by a friend saying "Dude read this, a great rnrntake on Celdran's DAMASO". But like a dissatisfied wife once asked her husband "Is it in?", your rambling rnrnthoughts just, well, ramble.rnrnFirst, Mr. Celdran's stunt was not "a desecration of holy ground" but it rightfully a trampling on the rnrnright of people to assemble and practice their faith. By interrupting a religious worship service (i.e. rnrnHoly Mass) Mr. Celdran ran roughshot over the freedom to worship in peace and quiet piety. And in doing so rnrnhe has turned every Catholic churchgoer into a potential victim to and every Mass a potential target of a rnrnderanged radical who does not agree with certain viewpoints of the Church. What stops a nutball from rnrnrepeating the now-infamous Damaso stunt or even top it? None. Thanks to Mr. Celdran, your "overnight rnrnhero". Bear in mind his fight was with the Church leadership and not its faithful ordinary members who is rnrnlikely in agreement with what he struggles to fight (I know I am, for sure). So no, Mr. de Veyra, it is rnrnnot a desecration (since if you did not bother to even look up Canon Law for this) is defined as "the loss rnrnof that peculiar quality of sacredness" and the Catholic Church has specific rules for such. Hence, your rnrnpowers of logical reasoning failed to grasp that Mr. Celdran's action merely interrupted the Mass and rnrntrampled upon the right of the churchgoers to assemble and practice their faith.rnrnSecond, the was charged with "offending religious feelings". A number of people could not get this, in rnrnfact. They were saying "What? Duh? WTF? Why? P**ang Inang Yan!" But when cooler heads returned and was rnrnready to listen to reason I explained that even in countries that our deranged pop culture worships rnrn(which, as I am informed, you are a part of being in a "rock band" and all that) like the US and Europe, rnrnthere are laws that protect against offending religious feelings. Why? Hate speech, intolerant majority rnrnpreying on a minority, anti-Semitism: take your pick. We are fortunate that in this country we do not have rnrnhate crimes in the proportion and magnitude as they had in Europe--think anti-Jewish pogroms or the rnrnHolocaust (or The Shoah as my elder Jewish relatives call it)--or the civil rights in the 1960s in the US. rnrnIn Poland, they have very sensitive "offending religious feelings" laws arising from the dehumanizing rnrntreatment that the Poles suffered when Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia invaded them in the 1930's and rnrnconverted them into a slave state. For sure Mr. Celdran's stunt was in no way near hate speech, but he all rnrnit takes if for one (in this case CBCP) to claim he "offends religious feelings". If you are for free rnrnspeech and the equal application of this right to all Filipinos, then the proper application of Article rnrn133 of the Revised Penal Code which prohibits "offending religious feelings" is one thing you have to rnrndefend. Look, the Catholic Church have always been targets of offensive religious insults but at least rnrnthey use the remedy of the law and debate in the public square to resove the matter. But it is another rnrnthing with militant Muslims. Think Theo van Gogh. So your point that "One dude carrying a placard in front rnrnof a coven of bishops will not instantly dismantle the very foundation of the Roman Catholic faith" is rnrnterribly misinformed. The dismantling is not on the faith but on a person's civil right to worship rnrnsince--thanks to Mr. Celdran's stunt--every churchgoes is now a victim and his/her place of worship a rnrntarget.rnrnLastly, you idiotically lamented that "Especially if you happen to be smart, educated, and living in the rnrnPhilippines circa 1890s, at time when we were still worrying about purgatory and venal sins while the rnrnWestern world was talking about laboratory barometers and democracy." Oi Vey!!! Have you even read rnrnPhilippine history? If you were in the Philippines during the 1890's the most pressing issue of the day rnrnwas the Philippine revolutionary movement! Every smart and educated class was either in its favor (of rnrncourse in secret) or overtly not infavor (obviously sucking up to clerical and civil authorities). Contemplation of purgatory and venal sins was simply not in your top ten list.rnrnSo please, you have a good grasp of english (for a "rock star"?), your demonstrate subject and verb agreement and has some semblance of reasoning skills. But kid you still need a LOT of work on the thinking and rational argument area. Like I said its very much what a dissatisfied wife once asked her husband "Is it in?"rnrnBest,rnrnF. Bastiat
  • mang cadio Oct 06 2010 @ 12:36pm Report Abuse
    Radioactive sago project sa susunod na sabado...:D
  • Tita Aida Oct 06 2010 @ 12:31pm Report Abuse
    I hope that Lourd and igeramos can attend the event before they get excommunicated. LOL. JK. Scuttlebutt: The Pope will be there. Tell the Pope how these Damasos have been misbehavin'.
  • H Oct 06 2010 @ 12:23pm Report Abuse
    LOL @ the capital H.
  • Mina Oct 06 2010 @ 12:17pm Report Abuse
    great! you nailed it,..as always :)
  • Borsalino Oct 06 2010 @ 11:51am Report Abuse
    Lourd, kita- kita tayo sa Pontifical University sa Enero, 400 years! Andoon kami ni Ige ramos sa Colegio de Bellas Artes!
  • monocle Oct 06 2010 @ 11:42am Report Abuse
    lourd, you really make us see things differently. truly, you are the carlos celdran of writers. of should we say carlos celdran is the lourd of performance art? i worship at your feet.
  • Tita Aida Oct 06 2010 @ 11:17am Report Abuse
    Lourd, great piece as always. I wonder how the Frailes at UST would react. You are right. Times have changed. UST is now run by Filipinos. It is time for our reproductive system to be run by us.
  • RobertDinero Oct 06 2010 @ 11:16am Report Abuse
    ...everytime you need to hit the emergency brakes...that was a stroke of genius Lourd !rnThat is exactly what I'm experciencing here . Nampota Lourd, nadale mo na naman!
  • Gneap Oct 06 2010 @ 11:05am Report Abuse
    You are ISPAT OWN once again, Senyor De Veyra. The Church has indeed lost their street cred--t least to some people whom you call mature, cultured, or even the "nagpapaka-'learned'." They're struggling to be cool again. Palakpakan!
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READ THE ARTICLE - Toni Gonzaga gets flak for her anti-Lady Gaga statements, Carlos Celdran tweets: "Are you for real?"

EAT+DRINK
CHECK IT OUT: Season of the Crab at Li Li
Try out Hyatt's crab dishes this June.
ENTERTAINMENT
Where To Go Tonight: The Bar & Club Scene This Week
Your handy guide to the metro's hottest gigs and parties.
ENTERTAINMENT
Top 10 Things To Do To Savor The End of...
The season's ending, so make it last.
SHOPPING+SERVICES
Oakley unveils innovative eyewear and apparel in its new collection
Gear up for an active lifestyle.
EAT+DRINK
CHECK IT OUT: El Buono Pizza at Tomas Morato
Who says that you can't have everything - supersized?
SHOPPING+SERVICES
Top 10 Museums to Visit in Manila
Dive into culture in these museums.
VIDEOS
VIDEO: "Call Me Maybe" with Solenn Heussaff, Anne Curtis, Manny...
Beautiful showbiz people meet the planet's catchiest song.
VIDEOS
VIDEO: "It's More Fun..." Meme
The Department of Tourism recaps the greatest hits of their viral campaign.
VIDEOS
VIDEO: Juana Change stamps Chief Justice Corona guilty
Juana Change gives her two cents on the Corona impeachment proceedings.
VIDEOS
VIDEO: Kim Chiu and Enchong Dee's ASAP dance fumble
A complicated number that ended up on the dance floor—literally.
VIDEOS
Madonna's NFL Halftime Superbowl Spectacle Stuns
The Queen of Pop still has the moves and holds her own against Nicky Minaj, LMFAO, Cee Lo Green and MIA.
VIDEOS
Lourd de Veyra's modeling debut in Cosmo's January issue
Lourd trades t-shirts for sixties-style suits.
VIDEOS
Ford Supermodel of the World Danica Magpantay stars in her...
The young model is Globe Tattoo@Home's newest brand ambassador.
VIDEOS
Videos of Ate Vangie, the "Pinoy Siri" go viral
Meet "Vangie," the Taglish-speaking virtual assistant who can help you combat Manila traffic jams, make Pinoy spaghetti, and more.